Jump to content

Energy Prices


Recommended Posts

This already exists. Octopus offer Agile and Tracker tariffs. They don't really work at the moment as the price is so high wholesale wise but years ago there was some benefit, especially if you have storage heaters or electric cars as nightime costs were low. 
Think agile still works if you have storage. I have a battery, and so the ability to charge it on a cheaper rate is a no brainer. I need to get switched over though and that requires a smart meter.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, flyingscot said:

This already exists. Octopus offer Agile and Tracker tariffs. They don't really work at the moment as the price is so high wholesale wise but years ago there was some benefit, especially if you have storage heaters or electric cars as nightime costs were low. 

I was on Agile Octopus until the prices started rising.  Moved onto a fixed tariff in December last year.  I've been looking at their newest tariff (Intelligent Octopus).  From what I can see you can fix for a couple of pence less than the unit cost is expected to go up to in October and still get the benefit of 7.5p per kWh overnight.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, flyingscot said:

This already exists. Octopus offer Agile and Tracker tariffs. They don't really work at the moment as the price is so high wholesale wise but years ago there was some benefit, especially if you have storage heaters or electric cars as nightime costs were low. 

No doubt that when this kicks in again they'll market this increase in peak costs as a saving at off-peak even though off-peak will be the price of the old normal rate. That's a classic trick which catches out anyone who isn't switched on.

Edited by oaksoft
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

You and I and many others on here try not to succumb to the power of advertising and consumerism. The marketing budgets and advertising methods that companies use to exploit peoples weaknesses is obviously working.

As for you being sane. I’d say you are definitely OFTW.

It obviously does work. Not sure why people fall for sales and marketing lines but they clearly do. In vast numbers.

The car situation is an interesting one.

For years there was shame in borrowing money to pay for something flashy that you couldn't afford, so people bought cheaper cars than they wanted.

Somewhere along the line that attitude changed and became "Why not rent one, that way you get a flashier car  than you could ever afford outright and you get a new one every 3 years. Buying is a mug's game." Some people are about to learn the lesson of that change in mindset.

IMO when we come out of this shite, I suspect people will re-evaluate their materialistic ambitions and their willingness to tie themselves into long term repayment schemes. Just like people re-evaluated working from a company office after covid. That will probably be a good thing in the longer term. The damage in the short term though will be pretty severe for some.

Edited by oaksoft
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mathematics said:

I can answer this one. Car manufacturers produce these ones in huge quantities and hence sell them for cheaper than “exotic” colours.

Interesting to think of red and blue as constituting "exotic colours"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

You and I and many others on here try not to succumb to the power of advertising and consumerism. The marketing budgets and advertising methods that companies use to exploit peoples weaknesses is obviously working.

As for you being sane. I’d say you are definitely OFTW.

That all depends on who is doing the watching.

If it's anyone who can tick off something on that list I made, I won't be losing much sleep at night. 😂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

It obviously does work. Not sure why people fall for sales and marketing lines but they clearly do. In vast numbers.

The car situation is an interesting one.

For years there was shame in borrowing money to pay for something flashy that you couldn't afford, so people bought cheaper cars than they wanted.

Somewhere along the line that attitude changed and became "Why not rent one, that way you get a flashier car  than you could ever afford outright and you get a new one every 3 years. Buying is a mug's game." Some people are about to learn the lesson of that change in mindset.

I'm not meaning to have a go at what folk choose to do with their money (including taking out loans) but it stark the difference you seen in the standard of cars walking around these days. 10/15 years ago, if you walked round a posh neighbourhood, you'd see fancy, expensive cars. If you walked round a poorer area, you'd see cheaper, older cars. Now you can walk around almost any part of a town or city and and see expensive, newer cars.

Maybe cars have become relatively more affordable but it's clearly been an absolute victory for car dealers and financiers in convincing folk to part with far more money for a car than they were 10/20 years ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, V.Aye.R said:

If I'm honest, I don't have a huge amount of sympathy. 

Some people are totally irresponsible with how they spend their money and the exposure they create for themselves. 

Myself and the missus have always lived on one salary despite both bringing one in. Could have the fancy cars, new kitchen etc but it's just keeping up with the Jones' behaviour going down that route. 

TBH, this isn't really a route of thought that I want to go down despite being similar to you as regards your last paragraph.

It's not really an issue of sympathy for people in that situation (or gloating at them for that matter).

The fact of the matter is that any government help needs to be directed at those right at the bottom in terms of earnings.

After that, I just don't think there will be enough to help anyone else including those who have over-extended.

Some people, maybe quite a few, will end up bankrupt, potentially losing their houses. I'm not gloating over that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

I'm not meaning to have a go at what folk choose to do with their money (including taking out loans) but it stark the difference you seen in the standard of cars walking around these days. 10/15 years ago, if you walked round a posh neighbourhood, you'd see fancy, expensive cars. If you walked round a poorer area, you'd see cheaper, older cars. Now you can walk around almost any part of a town or city and and see expensive, newer cars.

Maybe cars have become relatively more affordable but it's clearly been an absolute victory for car dealers and financiers in convincing folk to part with far more money for a car than they were 10/20 years ago.

Here's a great example:

Nearly New 2022 (22) Citroën C4 1.2 PureTech [130] C-Series Edition 5dr in Stirling | Arnold Clark

This (I have to admit unbelievably fugly) car is a 2022 model and costs £23k to buy new. Almost nobody is buying that car at that price.

But you can hire it for 4 years for £350 per month. For many people this is a no brainer even though they'll have paid about £16.5k over that period and still won't own the car. They can have the flashy car and they ignore the £16.5k bit. That's an incredible sales trick to pull off. Even people living in rough estates can afford this sort of monthly payment which explains what you are seeing when you walk around almost any area.

It taps into anyone who has no patience to wait for a reward but wants stuff right now.

That's how they've done it.

Of course, anyone in that situation is now stuck as prices rise.

Edited by oaksoft
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

TBH, this isn't really a route of thought that I want to go down despite being similar to you as regards your last paragraph.

It's not really an issue of sympathy for people in that situation (or gloating at them for that matter).

The fact of the matter is that any government help needs to be directed at those right at the bottom in terms of earnings.

After that, I just don't think there will be enough to help anyone else including those who have over-extended.

Some people, maybe quite a few, will end up bankrupt, potentially losing their houses. I'm not gloating over that.

No gloating from me. 

People who have an above average income and over extend are in my view asking for trouble. 

History tells you of crashes so its just a matter of time until one comes along. 

It's grim that people need to learn the hard way but its inevitable that those who are over exposed through unnecessary spending will suffer. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, V.Aye.R said:

No gloating from me. 

People who have an above average income and over extend are in my view asking for trouble. 

History tells you of crashes so its just a matter of time until one comes along. 

It's grim that people need to learn the hard way but its inevitable that those who are over exposed through unnecessary spending will suffer. 

If you're relatively well off but hit problems because you're over-extended, you should at least have options to sort yourself out. They might be sore ones to take but you should be able to reduce your spending or down-size your property (if you own one). I have way less sympathy for folk in that situation than folk who're getting skewered by sheer bad luck and circumstance whilst on lower incomes.

I think too many folk feel like downsizing your lifestyle is an intolerable hardship. It's not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Here's a great example:

Nearly New 2022 (22) Citroën C4 1.2 PureTech [130] C-Series Edition 5dr in Stirling | Arnold Clark

This (I have to admit unbelievably fugly) car is a 2022 model and costs £23k to buy new. Almost nobody is buying that car at that price.

But you can hire it for 4 years for £350 per month. For many people this is a no brainer even though they'll have paid about £16.5k over that period and still won't own the car. They can have the flashy car and they ignore the £16.5k bit. That's an incredible sales trick to pull off. Even people living in rough estates can afford this sort of monthly payment which explains what you are seeing when you walk around almost any area.

It taps into anyone who has no patience to wait for a reward but wants stuff right now.

That's how they've done it.

Of course, anyone in that situation is now stuck as prices rise.

I have regularly done pcp type deals as they suit my circumstances. I like to have a new/newish car every 2/3 years as I don't want to own the car outright. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just about everyone who has recently bought their first house or flat will be extended to the max. If interest rates keep going up say to Truss's economist guru's prediction, 7%, or higher, they'll be fucked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, dundeefc1783 said:

I have regularly done pcp type deals as they suit my circumstances. I like to have a new/newish car every 2/3 years as I don't want to own the car outright. 

The only thing which matters is whether the forthcoming price rises is going to cause you problems with any PCP deal you can't back out of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

It's going to be interesting to see if this precipitates a major house price crash if enough people desperately try to downsize at the same time.

That's not likely is it as every sale is also purchase and every person who downsizes has to find a house to buy.

No one is going to downsize due to interst rates unless it's the very final straw. Holidays, nights outs, new cars, new clothes etc will all be sacrificed before selling the house.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

The only thing which matters is whether the forthcoming price rises is going to cause you problems with any PCP deal you can't back out of.

With pcp deals, if you want to keep the car rather than hand it back, there is still a fairly hefty final payment to make.

If you have money and the MV of the car is higher than the final payment, then it’s a no brainer to buy the car.

If you hand the car back then you’ll still need to find the funds for the deposit on the new car.

I went down this route last time but I don’t recommend it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...