Energy Prices

[Bairnardo]

On 17/11/2022 at 16:41, Shadow Play said:

It certainly hasn’t gone anywhere near 30p per therm according to this, and other, charts.

I wonder if you saw a ‘next day delivery’ price or something similar?  As I understand it the next day delivery is not the price companies buy the gas as they have bought well into the future.  A bit like when the price of oil went sub $0 during lockdown.

As you will see from the graph 270p is the going rate. 

I spoke to the commercial guy today, he was trying to explain to me the difference between the various prices. Said hel send me some info. But aye, it's to do with day ahead versus monthly average versus spot prices etc. 

If I get info off him and manage to unpick it, il be sure to share. 

Didn't make me feel better to know that my work are getting it cheap as f**k, but that is what's happening

[DA Baracus]

Got a kuddly hoodie recently.

It's absolutely tremendous. So warm, so cosy.

[Jacksgranda]

Diesel was down nearly 10p/lt yesterday.

[flyingscot]

On 18/11/2022 at 21:12, Bairnardo said:

I spoke to the commercial guy today, he was trying to explain to me the difference between the various prices. Said hel send me some info. But aye, it's to do with day ahead versus monthly average versus spot prices etc. 

If I get info off him and manage to unpick it, il be sure to share. 

Didn't make me feel better to know that my work are getting it cheap as f**k, but that is what's happening

Aye its quite complex. I pay energy on 'day ahead' prices so my gas has been as low as 18.100 p/thm or 1.82 p/kWh in October (but only on one day). It's averaged out at 4.6p/kWh overall.   

[Zetterlund]

Anyone else got an Economy 10 meter?

I just had a look at the offer from our supplier for when our fixed rate comes to an end at the end of next month. Last 12 months energy costs around £1400, next year projected to be a bawhair under £4000.

At first I thought this can't be right, as the peak/off-peak rates are going from 17p/9p to 53p/36p which is obviously above the price 'guarantee'. But of course there are so many exclusions to who the cap applies to, one of which is meter type, so presumably my Economy 10 meter is why they're proposing such a shafting.

There's no chance I'm agreeing to this so I'll be looking at my options. Anyone else dealing with this, or perhaps similar with Economy 7?

[beefybake]

1 hour ago, Zetterlund said:

Anyone else got an Economy 10 meter?

I just had a look at the offer from our supplier for when our fixed rate comes to an end at the end of next month. Last 12 months energy costs around £1400, next year projected to be a bawhair under £4000.

At first I thought this can't be right, as the peak/off-peak rates are going from 17p/9p to 53p/36p which is obviously above the price 'guarantee'. But of course there are so many exclusions to who the cap applies to, one of which is meter type, so presumably my Economy 10 meter is why they're proposing such a shafting.

There's no chance I'm agreeing to this so I'll be looking at my options. Anyone else dealing with this, or perhaps similar with Economy 7?

I'm on Economy 7 with Octopus Energy.   Tariff is variable, ie, non fixed.

Not had a problem such as you've described.

Rates are...  Day : 42.90p /KwH     NIght: 14.61p /Kwh.     Daily Standing Charge: 51.03p .

If I was on the single rate standard variable, the rates would be...

33.86p /KwH   with daily standing charge of 51.00p.

These figures include the Energy Price Guarantee, but not the £66 per month ( £400 total ) that's paid to my account till March.

Have you asked your supplier how they've  come up with the figures you've mentioned ?

 

[ NB.  The Octopus rates, and standing charges, vary by 1 or 2p either way, calculated according to the areas served by the old pre-privatisation Electricity Boards.    I would assume that other energy supppliers rates work in the same way.   My area is SW England, formerly served by SWEB, South West Electricity Board. ]

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by beefybake

[s_dog]

15 hours ago, Zetterlund said:

Anyone else got an Economy 10 meter?

I just had a look at the offer from our supplier for when our fixed rate comes to an end at the end of next month. Last 12 months energy costs around £1400, next year projected to be a bawhair under £4000.

At first I thought this can't be right, as the peak/off-peak rates are going from 17p/9p to 53p/36p which is obviously above the price 'guarantee'. But of course there are so many exclusions to who the cap applies to, one of which is meter type, so presumably my Economy 10 meter is why they're proposing such a shafting.

There's no chance I'm agreeing to this so I'll be looking at my options. Anyone else dealing with this, or perhaps similar with Economy 7?

Is that a fixed deal or just on variable tariff?

The price cap guarantee figures don't apply for Economy 7 & 10, but from moneysavingexpert.com 

"On Eco 7, Eco 10 or other non standard tariff? I'm been told that firms should reduce tariffs so the reduction works on the weighted average of the combined rates (around 4p/kWh for gas and 17p/kWh for electric), but it's up to firms how they implement this, so we can't say for certain what the rates you'll pay are."

It might be worth registering on the mse forums for help with this, E10 tariffs especially are a bit of a specialist topic.

[DA Baracus]

Got an email from my supplier (Octopus) saying they haven't had a meter reading in a while.

They've never had a meter reading from me, because it's a pre-pay meter.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

DD up another £80 per month. Robbing french c***s.

 

[Zetterlund]

On 24/11/2022 at 22:49, beefybake said:

I'm on Economy 7 with Octopus Energy.   Tariff is variable, ie, non fixed.

Not had a problem such as you've described.

Rates are...  Day : 42.90p /KwH     NIght: 14.61p /Kwh.     Daily Standing Charge: 51.03p .

If I was on the single rate standard variable, the rates would be...

33.86p /KwH   with daily standing charge of 51.00p.

These figures include the Energy Price Guarantee, but not the £66 per month ( £400 total ) that's paid to my account till March.

Have you asked your supplier how they've  come up with the figures you've mentioned ?

 

[ NB.  The Octopus rates, and standing charges, vary by 1 or 2p either way, calculated according to the areas served by the old pre-privatisation Electricity Boards.    I would assume that other energy supppliers rates work in the same way.   My area is SW England, formerly served by SWEB, South West Electricity Board. ]

 

 

On 25/11/2022 at 14:32, s_dog said:

Is that a fixed deal or just on variable tariff?

The price cap guarantee figures don't apply for Economy 7 & 10, but from moneysavingexpert.com 

"On Eco 7, Eco 10 or other non standard tariff? I'm been told that firms should reduce tariffs so the reduction works on the weighted average of the combined rates (around 4p/kWh for gas and 17p/kWh for electric), but it's up to firms how they implement this, so we can't say for certain what the rates you'll pay are."

It might be worth registering on the mse forums for help with this, E10 tariffs especially are a bit of a specialist topic.

The rates I posted would be if I did nothing and automatically moved onto their standard variable tariff. I haven't had a chance to speak to them yet but will do this week hopefully.

I'm thinking it may make sense to have my E10 meter removed anyway, even if it costs a few hundred quid which is only a small fraction of the annual cost now. The last few years have been a pain in the arse to get quotes for it, and if the price caps don't apply then all the more reason to get rid.

[resk]

25 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I was reading an article about direct debits this morning but I can't find it again.

It talked about people who had huge credits on their accounts. One guy had over £1000 on his account and his energy company still massively increased his direct debit and wouldn't agree to reduce it. The advice to the guy was to make a complaint to OFGEM.

Am I missing something here? Is there a reason why people are not simply cancelling their direct debits and paying as the bills come in?

I wonder if direct debits are about to become the next major financial scandal.

Some (all?) energy suppliers charge a higher tariff if you don't pay by DD.  I got fed up with SSE setting my Electricity DD far too high for my usage (which I track pretty closely) so I switched to paying on receipt of the bill and found that out!  My gas is still on an inflated DD with SSE but I figure at least they're not getting too much of my money up front.  b*****ds.  

[eindhovendee]

35 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I was reading an article about direct debits this morning but I can't find it again.

It talked about people who had huge credits on their accounts. One guy had over £1000 on his account and his energy company still massively increased his direct debit and wouldn't agree to reduce it. The advice to the guy was to make a complaint to OFGEM.

Am I missing something here? Is there a reason why people are not simply cancelling their direct debits and paying as the bills come in?

I wonder if direct debits are about to become the next major financial scandal.

I don't know exactly how the whole BACS Direct Debit system works but surely if you have overpaid and are that much in credit you could make an indemnity claim to get your money back?

[TxRover]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

I was reading an article about direct debits this morning but I can't find it again.

It talked about people who had huge credits on their accounts. One guy had over £1000 on his account and his energy company still massively increased his direct debit and wouldn't agree to reduce it. The advice to the guy was to make a complaint to OFGEM.

Am I missing something here? Is there a reason why people are not simply cancelling their direct debits and paying as the bills come in?

I wonder if direct debits are about to become the next major financial scandal.

There are a number of paths to appeal a refusal to refund a portion of a credit balance. https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/check-if-you-are-owed-money-your-energy-bill

The whole premise of DD is balance billing, that is equal payments every month of the year so the high and low months cancel out. In exchange for getting access to your banking data, the companies offer a small discount for DD, and now many have taken to a £4 or so charge a month for non-DD accounts. The best for DD seem to be in the 6% discount range. Given you pretty much can’t make 6% on any deposit account, DD can be a reasonable choice IF they don’t rack up a large credit balance.

Given the newly added fees to pay monthly, the advantage of DD is much greater…if your DD is at £150 and you only used an average of £130 each month, over the year you’d pay £1,800 and accumulate a £240 credit…if you paid monthly (assuming £4 fee and 6% discount for DD), your average monthly bill would be £142.30, so you’d pay £1,707.60 and have an extra £92.40 but no credit with the energy provider. Your loss of interest on the £240 is minimal, perhaps £2 for the year. So, as long as you keep the greedy b*****ds from ballooning your credit balance, it’s not a terrible situation unless they jump your DD without warning.

If anything about DD becomes a scandal, it would be companies going broke with a bunch of large credit balances to small businesses, as those balances are NOT protected.

[54_and_counting]

4 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I was reading an article about direct debits this morning but I can't find it again.

It talked about people who had huge credits on their accounts. One guy had over £1000 on his account and his energy company still massively increased his direct debit and wouldn't agree to reduce it. The advice to the guy was to make a complaint to OFGEM.

Am I missing something here? Is there a reason why people are not simply cancelling their direct debits and paying as the bills come in?

I wonder if direct debits are about to become the next major financial scandal.

How the f**k did the person manage to build up a grand worth of credit and not try get it back sooner, thats fucking mental

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, 54_and_counting said:

How the f**k did the person manage to build up a grand worth of credit and not try get it back sooner, thats fucking mental

There's not enough information to come to anywhere near a conclusion though.

Perhaps the person has been running a hot tub for a couple of years, and has recently turned it off. The energy company will have access to previous year's usage and forecasting similar is a fair estimate.

That £1,400 might have been built up whilst on a 2 or 3 year fixed tariff on something like 3p / 15p that's just ended.

There will be genuine mistakes or piss takes but It's actually scary how many fully grown adults are not capable of understanding their bills or why DDs might have gone up despite recently cutting back.

[Todd_is_God]

3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Its also fascinating how few seem to know what to. do about rising direct debits.

I can understand people having to suddenly educate themselves over how bills are worked out but afte a year of this I am staggered by how many people are just sitting at home completely baffled by it all.

"Aye but Martin Lewis said..."

[jakedee]

What's been particularly striking about the energy crisis has been the volume of people who don't know the difference between their "bill" and their "direct debit" level.
The number of people who are talking about "company XXX have just doubled my direct debit overnight" and thinking this is their "bill" is absolutely incredible.

Also... the amount of people who go with the cheapest DD quote rather than check the price per kw/h. Finding their DD rises more than their previous one because the actual price per kw/h or standing charge was more expensive.

[54_and_counting]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

There's not enough information to come to anywhere near a conclusion though.

Perhaps the person has been running a hot tub for a couple of years, and has recently turned it off. The energy company will have access to previous year's usage and forecasting similar is a fair estimate.

That £1,400 might have been built up whilst on a 2 or 3 year fixed tariff on something like 3p / 15p that's just ended.

There will be genuine mistakes or piss takes but It's actually scary how many fully grown adults are not capable of understanding their bills or why DDs might have gone up despite recently cutting back.

The point being the credit doesn't build up over over a month or two, thats like a years worth, surely the punter thinks at 500 "i better drop my dd or ask for a refund" why let it go up to a grand

[Todd_is_God]

15 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

The point being the credit doesn't build up over over a month or two, thats like a years worth, surely the punter thinks at 500 "i better drop my dd or ask for a refund" why let it go up to a grand

They were previously paying nearly £400 a month. At that level of use, and with the price rises they would have been facing if they were still on a cheap fix, that £1,400 that was likely being put aside to soften the immediate impact of the cap rise would have disappeared very quickly without a DD increase.

It's all relative.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Todd_is_God

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

How the f**k did the person manage to build up a grand worth of credit and not try get it back sooner, thats fucking mental

I built up £1,200 credit intentionally, reason being we use a lot of electricity and gas and wasn't sure what assistance was going to be announced, worst case scenario I could have burned through that credit over winter. Once the assistance was announced I applied for a refund.