Energy Prices

[jakedee]

Why TF is the price of diesel going back up? Mid September it was down to around 171.9/litre now its back to 184.9.

Tesco near me, filling station has closed temporarily for refurbishment. Only other garage in the town is a jet. Diesel now £1.90.9
Fekn gougers.

[Mark Connolly]

4 minutes ago, jakedee said:

Tesco near me, filling station has closed temporarily for refurbishment. Only other garage in the town is a jet. Diesel now £190.9
Fekn gougers.

10 grand a tank is definitely a bit over the top...

[Aufc]

Another 8.2bn pounds of profit announced for Shell, this QUARTER.

No need for a windfall tax tho. We all pay instead.

It’s wild. However, it’s also wild that the likes of the banks are getting away with also making ridiculous profits and nothing being suggested about a windfall tax on them. Especially considering oil and gas companies already pay a larger tax percentage

[Gnash]

47 minutes ago, Aufc said:

 the banks are getting away with also making ridiculous profits and nothing being suggested about a windfall tax on them. 

Wrong on both counts.

Banks' profits have been suppressed for well over a decade due to the low interest rates.  If the base rate is 0.1%, you can't make any money on savings.  The increasing normalisation of interest rates just brings bank net interest margin towards a normal level. I'm not saying we should have sympathy for them, but to say they are making ridiculous profits is, well, ridiculous.

And there is loads of press about imposing a 'windfall' tax on them, which of course would be very popular.  Banks already do pay an additional 8% tax on profits.

[strichener]

20 minutes ago, Gnash said:

Wrong on both counts.

Banks' profits have been suppressed for well over a decade due to the low interest rates.  If the base rate is 0.1%, you can't make any money on savings.  The increasing normalisation of interest rates just brings bank net interest margin towards a normal level. I'm not saying we should have sympathy for them, but to say they are making ridiculous profits is, well, ridiculous.

And there is loads of press about imposing a 'windfall' tax on them, which of course would be very popular.  Banks already do pay an additional 8% tax on profits.

If you think a net profit margin of 30% is suppressed then you are living in an alternative universe.

[jakedee]

Ordered my biomass pellets for the 1st time since April. Decided it was time to put the heating on. Price is now £535 per 1 tonne pallet. That has risen from £295 for the same amount in December last year.
H.T.F is wooden pellets affected by energy prices (apart of course from delivery costs)?

[Bairnardo]

Ordered my biomass pellets for the 1st time since April. Decided it was time to put the heating on. Price is now £535 per 1 tonne pallet. That has risen from £295 for the same amount in December last year.
H.T.F is wooden pellets affected by energy prices (apart of course from delivery costs)?

Production presumably involves energy

[The DA]

20 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

21 minutes ago, jakedee said:

Ordered my biomass pellets for the 1st time since April. Decided it was time to put the heating on. Price is now £535 per 1 tonne pallet. That has risen from £295 for the same amount in December last year.
H.T.F is wooden pellets affected by energy prices (apart of course from delivery costs)?

Production presumably involves energy

And supply and demand.  More people buying pellets.

[jakedee]

And supply and demand.  More people buying pellets.

Should have stuck to oil heating. Noticed the price per litre has dropped recently.

[Bairnardo]

14 minutes ago, The DA said:

And supply and demand.  More people buying pellets.

AND.... let's not forget, the opportunity to absolutely fleece folk. Maybe the most significant driver in price...

[scottsdad]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

AND.... let's not forget, the opportunity to absolutely fleece folk. Maybe the most significant driver in price...

No chance of me forgetting this now...

[Alert Mongoose]

19 hours ago, Gnash said:

Banks' profits have been suppressed for well over a decade due to the low interest rates.  If the base rate is 0.1%, you can't make any money on savings.  The increasing normalisation of interest rates just brings bank net interest margin towards a normal level. I'm not saying we should have sympathy for them, but to say they are making ridiculous profits is, well, ridiculous.

Seriously? You're not paying attention. Yes, they were restricted from paying out dividends for a while due to EU restrictions but all that happened was they stuck them in revenue reserves and have paid them out when the restrictions were lifted. 

Normal interest payments are small fodder for banks.

[strichener]

2 hours ago, jakedee said:

Ordered my biomass pellets for the 1st time since April. Decided it was time to put the heating on. Price is now £535 per 1 tonne pallet. That has risen from £295 for the same amount in December last year.
H.T.F is wooden pellets affected by energy prices (apart of course from delivery costs)?

Drying costs.

[Savage Henry]

On 31/10/2022 at 13:36, DA Baracus said:

Bought one of those heater airers from Lakeland, the one that comes with the wee tent thing you chuck over it, as it seemingly costs pennies to run.

One of the biggest wastes of money I've ever spent. It's fucking useless. First time I tried it I had it on for 8 hours and only the bits of clothing that were in physical contact with it were dry, with the rest of the stuff being just as wet as when they came out of the washing machine (and I always do a spin/rinse cycle after each load of washing). 

Tried it again but this time with a (also pricey) dehumidifier inside the wee tent bit. Not a single bit of difference and the dehumidifier was bone fucking dry after 8 hours.

 

Honestly, are you sure it’s functioning properly?  We’ve got one as we live in a top floor flat, and it does a smashing job.  Admittedly, we leave it on for about a day, but it works a charm.    

[Gnash]

5 hours ago, Alert Mongoose said:

Seriously? You're not paying attention. Yes, they were restricted from paying out dividends for a while due to EU restrictions but all that happened was they stuck them in revenue reserves and have paid them out when the restrictions were lifted. 

Normal interest payments are small fodder for banks.

I've been paying plenty of attention.  Pre financial crisis, ie the last time interest rates were high enough for consumer rates not to be distorted by being unable to be negative, UK bank profits were far higher.  It's got nothing to do with dividends. 

If the base rate is 5%, the best sustained savings rates will be in the region of 4% and the best mortgage rates will be in the region of 6%.  The net interest margin is 2%.  But with base rates at about 0.5%, as they have been for most of the last 14 years, savings rates can't go below 0%.  Most accounts have been paying around 0.1%, but you could maybe get 0.5% by shopping around.  The best mortgage rates have been about 1.5%.  The net interest margin is 1%, or maybe a touch higher.  Hence net interest margin has been compressed versus 'normal' interest rates and banks' profits have been lower.

Obviously that is a simplification and there are many other factors involved, but the recent rise in interest rates does not mean that banks are making excess profits.  Indeed, with the economy going into a downturn, they have to set aside more money to cover expected defaults.

[Alert Mongoose]

25 minutes ago, Gnash said:

I've been paying plenty of attention.  Pre financial crisis, ie the last time interest rates were high enough for consumer rates not to be distorted by being unable to be negative, UK bank profits were far higher.  It's got nothing to do with dividends. 

If the base rate is 5%, the best sustained savings rates will be in the region of 4% and the best mortgage rates will be in the region of 6%.  The net interest margin is 2%.  But with base rates at about 0.5%, as they have been for most of the last 14 years, savings rates can't go below 0%.  Most accounts have been paying around 0.1%, but you could maybe get 0.5% by shopping around.  The best mortgage rates have been about 1.5%.  The net interest margin is 1%, or maybe a touch higher.  Hence net interest margin has been compressed versus 'normal' interest rates and banks' profits have been lower.

Obviously that is a simplification and there are many other factors involved, but the recent rise in interest rates does not mean that banks are making excess profits.  Indeed, with the economy going into a downturn, they have to set aside more money to cover expected defaults.

All valid but you are overstating the impact of interest on most banks' overall profit. 

[steelmen]

On 31/10/2022 at 13:36, DA Baracus said:

Bought one of those heater airers from Lakeland, the one that comes with the wee tent thing you chuck over it, as it seemingly costs pennies to run.

One of the biggest wastes of money I've ever spent. It's fucking useless. First time I tried it I had it on for 8 hours and only the bits of clothing that were in physical contact with it were dry, with the rest of the stuff being just as wet as when they came out of the washing machine (and I always do a spin/rinse cycle after each load of washing). 

Tried it again but this time with a (also pricey) dehumidifier inside the wee tent bit. Not a single bit of difference and the dehumidifier was bone fucking dry after 8 hours.

 

Not sure you are using the dehumidifier correctly as it will pick up water in the air, so unless you stay in the desert you should pick up something.

[strichener]

On 02/11/2022 at 21:31, Gnash said:

I've been paying plenty of attention.  Pre financial crisis, ie the last time interest rates were high enough for consumer rates not to be distorted by being unable to be negative, UK bank profits were far higher.  It's got nothing to do with dividends. 

If the base rate is 5%, the best sustained savings rates will be in the region of 4% and the best mortgage rates will be in the region of 6%.  The net interest margin is 2%.  But with base rates at about 0.5%, as they have been for most of the last 14 years, savings rates can't go below 0%.  Most accounts have been paying around 0.1%, but you could maybe get 0.5% by shopping around.  The best mortgage rates have been about 1.5%.  The net interest margin is 1%, or maybe a touch higher.  Hence net interest margin has been compressed versus 'normal' interest rates and banks' profits have been lower.

Obviously that is a simplification and there are many other factors involved, but the recent rise in interest rates does not mean that banks are making excess profits.  Indeed, with the economy going into a downturn, they have to set aside more money to cover expected defaults.

What a load of nonsense, the absolute value of profit is not relevant, what is the return on capital?  Barclays Bank reported a 30% net profit. 

One area that appears to be loosely related to interest rates is credit cards where even when base rates were .1%, credit card rates were in the high 20s.

Edited November 4, 2022 by strichener

[Gnash]

5 hours ago, strichener said:

What a load of nonsense, the absolute value of profit is not relevant, what is the return on capital?  Barclays Bank reported a 30% net profit. 

One area that appears to be loosely related to interest rates is credit cards where even when base rates were .1%, credit card rates were in the high 20s.

Fair point about the return on capital.  Here is the ROCE for UK banking since the last 90s.  You can clearly see how it dropped off a cliff after the financial crisis and is still well below that level.  Source link.

 

[Jambomo]

On 31/10/2022 at 13:36, DA Baracus said:

Bought one of those heater airers from Lakeland, the one that comes with the wee tent thing you chuck over it, as it seemingly costs pennies to run.

One of the biggest wastes of money I've ever spent. It's fucking useless. First time I tried it I had it on for 8 hours and only the bits of clothing that were in physical contact with it were dry, with the rest of the stuff being just as wet as when they came out of the washing machine (and I always do a spin/rinse cycle after each load of washing). 

Tried it again but this time with a (also pricey) dehumidifier inside the wee tent bit. Not a single bit of difference and the dehumidifier was bone fucking dry after 8 hours.

 

Is it working properly? I have one and even without the tent bit, the clothes are usually dry by morning (I switch it on before I go to bed).

Edited November 4, 2022 by Jambomo