Energy Prices

[scottsdad]

28 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Well, yes, but we don't use petrol to generate our electricity.

I'm not making an environmental argument, rather pointing out the obvious flaw in Oaksoft's plan to save electricity.

To be fair, @oaksoft is not wrong about a lot of it. Many people, seeing their bills rising, have cut back on electricity. Some cannot cut back more without sitting in the dark.

But many more people haven't. At least, not as much as they could. A relatively modest (£15 million) government ad campaign could cut electricity usage by quite a bit by informing people of alternative ways to do regular stuff, like drying clothes. If people did this, then the amount that the government is subsidising the energy companies would drop by more than the £15m. It's crazy that this campaign was stopped. I genuinely have heard people complain that their bills are away up, whilst they run a tumble dryer all day when it is dry outside.

I do indeed take your point about electric cars. A lot of very false advertising going around about these ("zero emissions").

[hk blues]

28 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

To be fair, @oaksoft is not wrong about a lot of it. Many people, seeing their bills rising, have cut back on electricity. Some cannot cut back more without sitting in the dark.

But many more people haven't. At least, not as much as they could. A relatively modest (£15 million) government ad campaign could cut electricity usage by quite a bit by informing people of alternative ways to do regular stuff, like drying clothes. If people did this, then the amount that the government is subsidising the energy companies would drop by more than the £15m. It's crazy that this campaign was stopped. I genuinely have heard people complain that their bills are away up, whilst they run a tumble dryer all day when it is dry outside.

I do indeed take your point about electric cars. A lot of very false advertising going around about these ("zero emissions").

Do we need to spend 15m on a campaign to tell people that it's cheaper to dry clothes outside than using a tumble dryer though?  

[Todd_is_God]

8 minutes ago, hk blues said:

Do we need to spend 15m on a campaign to tell people that it's cheaper to dry clothes outside than using a tumble dryer though?  

You'd probably be surprised tbh.

That said, drying clothes outside in winter in Scotland is not always practical, and drying clothes slowly in a cold indoor environment is asking for mould to grow.

£15m out of £100b is also absolute chicken feed.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Todd_is_God

[hk blues]

7 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

You'd probably be surprised tbh.

That said, drying clothes outside in winter in Scotland is not always practical, and drying clothes slowly in a cold indoor environment is asking for mould to grow.

£15m out of £100b is also absolute chicken feed.

The bas burst if folk really need to be told where, when and how to dry their clothes.  I can think of plenty better uses for 15m as I'm sure you can.

[Todd_is_God]

10 minutes ago, hk blues said:

The bas burst if folk really need to be told where, when and how to dry their clothes.  I can think of plenty better uses for 15m as I'm sure you can.

Not so much about telling people where and how to dry their clothes but plenty of people will have no idea how many kWh their tumble dryer uses and/or still don't understand the £2,500 cap isn't a spending limit.

RE: £15m of course I can. But a 0.015% saving isn't anything worthwhile.

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, scottsdad said:

To be fair, @oaksoft is not wrong about a lot of it. Many people, seeing their bills rising, have cut back on electricity. Some cannot cut back more without sitting in the dark.

But many more people haven't. At least, not as much as they could. A relatively modest (£15 million) government ad campaign could cut electricity usage by quite a bit by informing people of alternative ways to do regular stuff, like drying clothes. If people did this, then the amount that the government is subsidising the energy companies would drop by more than the £15m. It's crazy that this campaign was stopped. I genuinely have heard people complain that their bills are away up, whilst they run a tumble dryer all day when it is dry outside.

I do indeed take your point about electric cars. A lot of very false advertising going around about these ("zero emissions").

Or the government could just not throw tax cuts at the rich and clobber windfall taxes on the energy producers, which would substantially reduce the overall cost of its policies. It could also have tapered its support measures instead of giving a universal payment to everyone. 

Putting the onus on the public to not run the leccy too much because the Chancellor will be sad/Putin will be happy about it is pathetically small-time behaviour. 

 

[scottsdad]

16 minutes ago, virginton said:

Or the government could just not throw tax cuts at the rich and clobber windfall taxes on the energy producers, which would substantially reduce the overall cost of its policies. It could also have tapered its support measures instead of giving a universal payment to everyone. 

Putting the onus on the public to not run the leccy too much because the Chancellor will be sad/Putin will be happy about it is pathetically small-time behaviour. 

 

I agree with your first point. Why there is no windfall tax is anybody's guess.

[Todd_is_God]

19 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Yes, but I was.

Really?

21 hours ago, oaksoft said:

It's astonishing and quite frankly criminal that the government are not leading the way on a prolonged national campaign about everyone cutting their energy usage by a certain percentage.

Between the cost-of-living crisis, the bill the government will have to pay energy firms to compensate for the price cap and the environmental crisis, this should be a no-brainer.

That'll be why you popped it last in your list of things you were voicing your faux concern over then.

[Todd_is_God]

25 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I've haven't mentioned electric cars at all. Really not sure what you're trying to achieve here.

Whether or not you agree with the point I was making, I think I've explained my reasoning for bringing up electric cars 

Are you going to explain how, if there was an energy shortage, someone battering 50+kWh a week into an electric car is fine but someone using a tumble dryer now and then, for example, is out of order? Or will you continue to ignore the question because you can't really answer it?

[RiG]

Weird flex but okay...

[Shadow Play]

8 hours ago, scottsdad said:

I don't think comparing electric cars to houses is a good comparison. Best to compare electric cars with petrol ones as this is the energy that will be replaced if people switch.

Take something a bit more bog standard. The Renault Zoe has a battery capacity of 52 kWh and uses ~0.25 kWh per mile.

To charge this from completely empty to completely full would cost around £18 in electricity, and give you driving for about 200 miles.

A gallon of petrol costs ~£7.25. A car doing 40 mpg will cost around £36 for 5 gallons, and give you driving for about 200 miles. Around double the  financial cost.

In terms of generating these kWh, a gallon of petroleum liquids (not regular unleaded) generates around 13 kWh in power stations.  To charge the Renault Zoe would take around 4 gallons of these.

In short, an electric vehicle uses marginally less fuel than a petrol equivalent, but costs much less to run.

Is that not because of the government’s Energy Price Guarantee? i.e. without this the price for a unit electricity was predicted to at least double come January 2023.  Using your figures above that would make 200 miles cost £36 for electricity - the same as petrol.

I’m not knocking the use of electric cars.  I’m just pointing out that their running costs are now being massively subsidised by the government (under the Energy Price Guarantee) and will continue to to be subsidised for at least the next two years.  

[Detournement]

France right now. 

[Detournement]

This is more rent than energy but the principle here applies across the whole economy. With ownership of the economy consolidated over a few big funds like Blackrock that are all intertwined it becomes more profitable to use IT to find the most efficiently profitable way to operate rather than just aiming for growing a business. 

 

[paulathame]

Got my September bill in £60 I thought that's OK I'm normally £55 to £65 a month. 

Then remembered we were off on holiday for two weeks. So it is looking like my bill has doubled 

[bobbykdy]

24 minutes ago, paulathame said:

Got my September bill in £60 I thought that's OK I'm normally £55 to £65 a month. 

Then remembered we were off on holiday for two weeks. So it is looking like my bill has doubled 

Shouldn't have, price increase didn't kick in until October 1.

[paulathame]

Just now, bobbykdy said:

Shouldn't have, price increase didn't kick in until October 1.

Oh fuccc its not kicked in yet I'll have to sell my kidney to get through this winter 

[bobbykdy]

1 minute ago, paulathame said:

Oh fuccc its not kicked in yet I'll have to sell my kidney to get through this winter 

I know it isn't the most interesting of subjects but I would try to compare your bill with one from the previous month, see if they haven't started charging you the higher rate early in error, something doesn't sound right from what you say.

[paulathame]

Thanks I'll do that when I don't have a hangover 

[TxRover]

4 hours ago, paulathame said:

Got my September bill in £60 I thought that's OK I'm normally £55 to £65 a month. 

Then remembered we were off on holiday for two weeks. So it is looking like my bill has doubled 

 

4 hours ago, bobbykdy said:

I know it isn't the most interesting of subjects but I would try to compare your bill with one from the previous month, see if they haven't started charging you the higher rate early in error, something doesn't sound right from what you say.

There is also the fact that you electrical and/or gas usage doesn’t go to zero just because you’re on holiday, unless you’re a maniac who carefully disconnects every damn thing and completely turns off the water heater and heatings/cooling (if any) systems. You should probably look for a baseline usage for your abode, another useful smart meter trick.

[hk blues]

11 hours ago, TxRover said:

 

There is also the fact that you electrical and/or gas usage doesn’t go to zero just because you’re on holiday, unless you’re a maniac who carefully disconnects every damn thing and completely turns off the water heater and heatings/cooling (if any) systems. You should probably look for a baseline usage for your abode, another useful smart meter trick.

My wife pretty much does what you describe - only exception is the fridge.  She even takes photos of the outlets for peace of mind.  

She is a maniac just as you describe.