welshbairn Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Blue Brazil Forever said: Question: Why is the average price of a pint almost double the price of a litre of petrol? I had a pint of Stowford Press cider in Fraserburgh Spoons for £1.90 last night, not sure if it even covered the tax tbh. Stella was £3.10 iirc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 23 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Theres an enormous storage potential in incentivising people to have EVs and keep them plugged in and available to take power. The problem is that the current EVs that can put that power back out such as the EV6 can only handle 1400w or thereabouts. Not much point in storing it if you can't get it back out when you need it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 57 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Theres an enormous storage potential in incentivising people to have EVs and keep them plugged in and available to take power. Sounds great for humping the battery more quickly. It's going to be very interesting in about 10 years time to see the cost (both financial and environmental) of disposing of and replacing the huge number of EV batteries that will be approaching end of life by that time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 57 minutes ago, strichener said: The problem is that the current EVs that can put that power back out such as the EV6 can only handle 1400w or thereabouts. Not much point in storing it if you can't get it back out when you need it. But if there's somewhere to put it when it's generating, that's a big part of the puzzle surely. Getting it back out even at 1.4kW goes some way to alleviating the problem at hand. Don't know how common that is. My home battery can discharge at 2.6kW 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Bairnardo said: But if there's somewhere to put it when it's generating, that's a big part of the puzzle surely. Getting it back out even at 1.4kW goes some way to alleviating the problem at hand. Don't know how common that is. My home battery can discharge at 2.6kW It's part of the puzzle but it isn't a viable solution until they increase the output from the car. Even 2.6kW is probably at the lower end of what would be needed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 On 04/10/2022 at 11:40, BFTD said: Well, that was worth waiting for. I got the same today,you would think the amount of cash getting chucked at them they could afford a new server or two so folk can log in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 I’m sure there are some great ideas there but, in the short to medium term we need fossil fuels plus a ramping up of nuclear. SNP says no on that one! Its no good telling everyone that Scotland produces 100% of its energy from renewables when , if you have a high pressure cold snap with no wind, you need to import from elsewhere. A secure base load is essential. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 On 08/10/2022 at 21:54, oaksoft said: Well tonight a combination of tiredness and feeling as cold as the dead themselves meant I gave in and put the boiler on for an hour in 3 rooms to get the frost melted. After 10 minutes I realised I had set the boiler to freeze mode. Turned it up. Another 10 minutes later I realised I'd switched all my radiators off during the summer. Not a good night for my ego. I'm not disappointed in you. I am disappointed for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 12 minutes ago, oaksoft said: That's where an obsession with blinkered, ignorant short-term thinking and an unwillingness to change . Oh, leave me alone! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 42 minutes ago, oaksoft said: As much as I strongly disagree with this approach, I suspect that what you are suggesting will happen and we'll be back here discussing the same problem in 5-10 years time. That's where an obsession with blinkered, ignorant short-term thinking and an unwillingness to change your energy consuming habits leads you. If the technology was available then you might have a point, but it isn't. The benefits of being able to store energy are not new - if it was possible to store generated energy on anything like the scale required for what you are suggesting it would have been embraced long ago, both here and across the globe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said: If the technology was available then you might have a point, but it isn't. The benefits of being able to store energy are not new - if it was possible to store generated energy on anything like the scale required for what you are suggesting it would have been embraced long ago, both here and across the globe. No it wouldn't because it can't compete economically with fossil fuels. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 13 minutes ago, strichener said: No it wouldn't because it can't compete economically with fossil fuels. To be clear, you believe that no attempt has been made since the dawn of time to store excess energy that could by generated by freely available wind, hydro or solar to supply the National Grid during periods where it is less windy etc not because the technology doesn't exist, but because it's cheaper instead to just supply enough to meet demand, build multi billion pound nuclear power plants, and buy fossil fuels to generate the power instead? I'd love to see your working to come to that conclusion tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEY_SIDNEY Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 https://www.r-e-a.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Energy-Storage-FINAL6.pdf Always find this useful when discussing storage. *puts crash helmet on* for replies ha! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: To be clear, you believe that no attempt has been made since the dawn of time to store excess energy that could by generated by freely available wind, hydro or solar to supply the National Grid during periods where it is less windy etc not because the technology doesn't exist, but because it's cheaper instead to just supply enough to meet demand, build multi billion pound nuclear power plants, and buy fossil fuels to generate the power instead? I'd love to see your working to come to that conclusion tbh. Ehm, Hydro is a store of energy. Since the dawn of time? I think you need to go and check out your history. Anyway, why would you look to store energy in vast quantities when you can just burn materials to make it as you need (wood, peat, coal, gas, oil). The only reason that we are looking at an energy crisis now is that global demand is oustripping the infrastructure to deliver the materials together with political decisions to limit what is acceptable to use as energy sources. No climate change = no change in behaviour = no energy crisis. Edited October 10, 2022 by strichener 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 minute ago, oaksoft said: I have already addressed why this is the case - consecutive governments simply have not thought beyond the next election and have repeatedly chosen the cheapest option available at the time. They needed to subsidise the research and development of renewables energy. Instead they spent the thick end of 50 years labelling renewables advocates as expensive, tree-hugging quinoa-munching lunatics. And the result of that blinkered, short-term thinking is staring us right in the face. And the solution according to you and @Dawson Park Boy ? To replace the energy security crisis with an even bigger environmental crisis because it's cheap in the short term. That doesn't seem smart to me. You make it out like the UK Gov are the only ones to do this, though. Either the entire developed world have adopted the same strategy, or what you want simply isn't possible. I know which is the more likely of the two. I'm not sure what you mean by the bit in bold tbh. What is it you think my solution is? I'd also be wary of portraying renewables as 100% environmentally friendly in the way you appear to do tbh. The downsides of destroying natural habitat to build the infrastructure for clean energy are a known quantity, the downsides of maintaining the current balance of a mix of renewable and fossil fuels are estimated based on models. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEY_SIDNEY Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, oaksoft said: You're going to struggle to find anyone on here who wants to read a 30 page report. As a country we use way too much energy, take our energy for granted and we don't store enough for non-windy days. If that report says anything other than that you might want to bullet point for ease of discussion. If people want to read it and educate themselves further then so be it. I found it useful but probably cos ma line of work ha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 There are a few people on here who sound like the experts in the Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894. “The supposed problem of excessive horse-manure collecting in the streets was solved by the proliferation of cars which replaced horses as the means of transportation in big cities. The term great horse manure crisis of 1894 is often used to denote a problem which seems to be impossible to solve because it is being looked at from the wrong direction.[3][4] The name refers to a supposed 1894 publication in The Times, which said "In 50 years, every street in London will be buried under nine feet of manure".[3]“ As @oaksoft has alluded to - you don’t solve a problem until the necessity exists. It’s why we moved from biplanes to jet engines in about 15 years - the threat of war and then its reality really focuses the mind. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, HEY_SIDNEY said: If people want to read it and educate themselves further then so be it. I found it useful but probably cos ma line of work ha. I went to the Conclusion which sounded reasonably positive. Im all for it and agree it should be fast tracked with government support. Its just that I’ve heard about this for decades and nothing much seems to have happened. Hopefullythis crisis will speed things up as it would be a real game changer. Its just that, in the meantime, I don’t want the lights to go out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 On 09/10/2022 at 17:12, Todd_is_God said: Other than batteries, what methods of storing energy to feed the National Grid are there? https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/oct/10/hot-moves-how-a-glasgow-venue-harvests-heat-from-dancers "He recruited inventor David Townsend and his company TownRock Energy to investigate greening the complex and, in just over a year, they developed and built Bodyheat: a system that provides carbon-free climate control by storing heat from SWG3’s visitors. “Bodyheat is a crazy dream born from being in lots of hot clubs, working in geothermal energy, and bringing the two together,” Townsend says. “This dream is now a functioning, complex energy system that hopefully can inspire lots of other businesses and venues to reach net zero.” Get dancing, people.......... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Jeezo. Two pages of posts explaining exactly why nothing much seems to have changed and you're on here claiming to be baffled by it. I’m baffled that nothing much has happened. I remember politicians going on about carbon capture and storage during the Tony Blair years. I just assumed that bringing it to fruition was beyond scientific capability. Again, I’m not disagreeing with you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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