Energy Prices

[Loonytoons]

12 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I don't think you can be forced to take a smart meter. We don't have them, but I too have received an email asking me to make an appointment. I'm not sure if I'm particularly bothered... as long as the meters are readable by ANY potential new supplier we might choose. I look to change every time my deal expires if there's a better deal available but I'm not wanting the hassle of a new one at every change.

I'm not getting asked anymore.  They made an unprompted appointment themselves with no easy way to cancel.

Not sure if I've picked you up properly with your last sentence but I'm sure a smart meter only needs put in once and doesn't need changing every time you switch.

Only reason for switching out a smart meter is to get away from the 1st generation ones.

[RH33]

My smart metre was installed shortly after I moved in, mid September. It's never sent readings to EDF though. Friends gas one is the same.

[Soapy FFC]

The Guardian doing an unintentional Private Eye number crunching.

[Bairnardo]

Centrica boss warns energy bills will stay high for foreseeable future - BBC News

BBC running interference on behalf of the highwaymen again.... Quelle suprise. 

 

Anyway, I got an email from Scottish Gas on about grants for heat pumps. Has anyone looked into it recently? Im tempted to get them out for a look. 

[scottsdad]

4 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Centrica boss warns energy bills will stay high for foreseeable future - BBC News

BBC running interference on behalf of the highwaymen again.... Quelle suprise. 

 

Anyway, I got an email from Scottish Gas on about grants for heat pumps. Has anyone looked into it recently? Im tempted to get them out for a look. 

I looked into heat pumps a while back. The thing that got me was that, in temperatures below zero, they become less effective. So, in a cold snap you might end up without heating or hot water.

[scottsdad]

I'm with OVO energy. tried to submit my meter readings online - the website is being upgraded so cannot do that until the end of the year. 

Installed the app. Opened it, and it says this version of the app is no longer in use.

Instant chat messaging is unavailable. 

Emailing is unavailable. 

Phoned them, on hold for 12 minutes and got cut off.

[beefybake]

15 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

I'm with OVO energy. tried to submit my meter readings online - the website is being upgraded so cannot do that until the end of the year. 

Installed the app. Opened it, and it says this version of the app is no longer in use.

Instant chat messaging is unavailable. 

Emailing is unavailable. 

Phoned them, on hold for 12 minutes and got cut off.

 

Any of the above telling you that it's long past time to leave .... ?

[Soapy FFC]

29 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

I'm with OVO energy. tried to submit my meter readings online - the website is being upgraded so cannot do that until the end of the year. 

Installed the app. Opened it, and it says this version of the app is no longer in use.

Instant chat messaging is unavailable. 

Emailing is unavailable. 

Phoned them, on hold for 12 minutes and got cut off.

Sounds like enough for a complaint to the regulator 

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, scottsdad said:

I looked into heat pumps a while back. The thing that got me was that, in temperatures below zero, they become less effective. So, in a cold snap you might end up without heating or hot water.

Heat pumps need to work harder as it gets colder, but still work fine until it gets to around -25°C. In Scotland, only Gayfield Park regularly drops to this temperature.

We had an air source heat pump installed in March 2019. Previously, we had storage heaters & panel heaters. Our electricty direct debit dropped from over £200/month to under £100/month, and even with the price increases since, is still less per month than we were paying in February 2019.

At the time, the grants available were determined by the efficiency of the system, and were payable over 7 years. I'm going to get at least £8400 back on my initial investment of around £12500 (which included improving the loft insulation), so by my calculations, the system has already effectively paid for itself, and the house is a lot warmer.

[RH33]

7 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Centrica boss warns energy bills will stay high for foreseeable future - BBC News

BBC running interference on behalf of the highwaymen again.... Quelle suprise. 

 

Anyway, I got an email from Scottish Gas on about grants for heat pumps. Has anyone looked into it recently? Im tempted to get them out for a look. 

I had a grant funded air source heat pump and solar put in. Plus insulation. There was no heating here at all. 

Think you have to have good insulation to make it effective. Mine was commissioned on a day it never went above minus 15

Don't touch MCP with a barge pole. I've literally just had last of issues sorted and it started in December. Including rather than fixing an issue just turned the anti bacterial cycle off.

 

[Bairnardo]

4 minutes ago, RH33 said:

I had a grant funded air source heat pump and solar put in. Plus insulation. There was no heating here at all. 

Think you have to have good insulation to make it effective. Mine was commissioned on a day it never went above minus 15

Don't touch MCP with a barge pole. I've literally just had last of issues sorted and it started in December. Including rather than fixing an issue just turned the anti bacterial cycle off.

 

Whats MCP?

[RH33]

2 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Whats MCP?

Company that supplies and fits.

[Zetterlund]

10 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Centrica boss warns energy bills will stay high for foreseeable future - BBC News

BBC running interference on behalf of the highwaymen again.... Quelle suprise. 

 

Anyway, I got an email from Scottish Gas on about grants for heat pumps. Has anyone looked into it recently? Im tempted to get them out for a look. 

 

6 hours ago, scottsdad said:

I looked into heat pumps a while back. The thing that got me was that, in temperatures below zero, they become less effective. So, in a cold snap you might end up without heating or hot water.

(Heat pump engineer hat on...)

If it's designed properly this wont happen, as modern heat pumps work down to -25C. They will obviously become less efficient as it gets colder, but they should be designed to heat the house to 21C at the building regulation outdoor temperature (-4C in my part of Scotland) without the need for any electric backup heating. It'll still be running efficiently at -4 too, if spec'd correctly.

Unfortunately, as always happens when cowboys jump on the latest thing, many installers are only interested in selling them and don't understand them.

The council in Orkney fitted heat pumps to some of their housing some years ago, without understanding them, and are now ripping them out and fitting electric heaters. Madness.

You can get around £9k towards a heat pump in government funding so for many it's a no brainer to at least look into it. If you're on main gas though, it wont save you money in running costs - it works out around the same since gas is about 1/3 the cost of electric and heat pumps will run around 300% efficient.

[Bairnardo]

8 hours ago, Zetterlund said:

 

(Heat pump engineer hat on...)

If it's designed properly this wont happen, as modern heat pumps work down to -25C. They will obviously become less efficient as it gets colder, but they should be designed to heat the house to 21C at the building regulation outdoor temperature (-4C in my part of Scotland) without the need for any electric backup heating. It'll still be running efficiently at -4 too, if spec'd correctly.

Unfortunately, as always happens when cowboys jump on the latest thing, many installers are only interested in selling them and don't understand them.

The council in Orkney fitted heat pumps to some of their housing some years ago, without understanding them, and are now ripping them out and fitting electric heaters. Madness.

You can get around £9k towards a heat pump in government funding so for many it's a no brainer to at least look into it. If you're on main gas though, it wont save you money in running costs - it works out around the same since gas is about 1/3 the cost of electric and heat pumps will run around 300% efficient.

Presumably those running costs being equal to gas could be offset by either, getting better than 300% efficiency, which seems notionally possible at least based on some YouTube stuff iv seen, or by doing all your water heating on a dual rate overnight tariff?

[RH33]

15 hours ago, scottsdad said:

I looked into heat pumps a while back. The thing that got me was that, in temperatures below zero, they become less effective. So, in a cold snap you might end up without heating or hot water.

Mine was installed in winter, the idea is you run it at a constant temperature. So although your won't be able to turn it on like a gas boiler and get an instant burst of heat, my house was never cold over winter. 

You can boost the hot water temp though. 

There's no mains gas in this house think the elderly couple didn't hook up because most houses around me do. ASHP was free through the grant I got. Gas boiler is certainly more handy for instant heat boost.

[Zetterlund]

2 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Presumably those running costs being equal to gas could be offset by either, getting better than 300% efficiency, which seems notionally possible at least based on some YouTube stuff iv seen, or by doing all your water heating on a dual rate overnight tariff?

Aye if you can benefit from a lower rate that'll help, although the large majority of energy use will be for space heating.

Over 300% efficiency is definitely possible, with anything from 250 to 350 being the normal range in my experience. It's all about keeping the flow temperature low which is why bigger radiators are needed, and also why the heating pipework often needs replaced to allow higher flow rates.

Those switching from mains gas generally don't do it to lower running costs, unless they benefit from solar too. It's usually a desire to get away from fossil fuels, so if their boiler needs replaced it's a viable option while the government are throwing money at you to fit them.

Air to air heat pumps are much more efficient than air to water at up to 500%, but you don't currently get the same funding options for them.

[Zetterlund]

14 hours ago, RH33 said:

Don't touch MCP with a barge pole. I've literally just had last of issues sorted and it started in December. Including rather than fixing an issue just turned the anti bacterial cycle off.

 

Let me guess... fitted to an existing hot water tank?

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

My current gas boiler is coming up for 20 years old so have been considering replacing it for a more fuel efficient one.  Was going to wait a bit for heat pumps to become a bit more established but got a mail from Scottish Gas saying 'Claim your £7.5k grant – get a heat pump from just £499':

 

Quote

Want to go greener with a heat pump, but worried your home won’t be as comfortable? You can relax with the Warm Home Promise from Scottish Gas. We only install a heat pump if we’re 100% sure it’ll make your home as warm and cosy as a boiler. And if it doesn’t, we’ll put things right – or give you your money back.

as they'll do a free home survey I thought, why not, at least I've be able to see if I need to have any pipework and/or radiators replaced and get an idea of the potential cost and something to compare against other installers.

Filled in the form online and got.

Quote

Thanks for your interest in joining the air source heat pump revolution.

You’ve just taken an important step on the way to a cleaner, greener and more efficient way of heating your home and hot water.

We’re offering installations in more and more areas every week – we’ll be in touch as soon as we’re in your area.

Why send me the mail if you aren't doing installations in my area, pull the addresses from the database you used and filter by available postcodes.

 

[Bairnardo]

22 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

Aye if you can benefit from a lower rate that'll help, although the large majority of energy use will be for space heating.

Over 300% efficiency is definitely possible, with anything from 250 to 350 being the normal range in my experience. It's all about keeping the flow temperature low which is why bigger radiators are needed, and also why the heating pipework often needs replaced to allow higher flow rates.

Those switching from mains gas generally don't do it to lower running costs, unless they benefit from solar too. It's usually a desire to get away from fossil fuels, so if their boiler needs replaced it's a viable option while the government are throwing money at you to fit them.

Air to air heat pumps are much more efficient than air to water at up to 500%, but you don't currently get the same funding options for them.

As I said I might get them out for a look but I think pipe upgrades or many radiator changes would be the point at which I would say no tbh. 

[Zetterlund]

10 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

As I said I might get them out for a look but I think pipe upgrades or many radiator changes would be the point at which I would say no tbh. 

You do get high temperature heat pumps which are intended as a straight swap for a boiler with existing pipework etc. More expensive, but a solution for some.

My own heat pump is running on the old pipework but I did replace all radiators. Not ideal and it could be more efficient, but someone isn't keen on me tearing up all the floors...