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Energy Prices


MuckleMoo

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2 hours ago, Gnash said:

Fair point about the return on capital.  Here is the ROCE for UK banking since the last 90s.  You can clearly see how it dropped off a cliff after the financial crisis and is still well below that level.  Source link.

united kingdom bank return on equity percent after tax wb data

 

The capital reserve requirements are a major factor in that reduction.

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3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Some energy suppliers using smart meters to force people onto prepayment plans, bypassing the normal legal requirement for a warrant to access your house.

Rise in energy firms remotely switching homes to prepay meters - BBC News

How on earth this woman needed to be using up to more than £430 per month on energy is a different matter. And it's not even particularly cold yet.

I can see this going pear shaped when a company slams someone onto prepayment not realizing someone in the household has a powered, life-preserving medical device…

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Shell Energy, absolute clown shoes. Been trying to get my credit balance refunded for around 6 weeks now and every time they make a complete mess of it.

I've asked for compo now (as well as my credit balance) for the time I've wasted chasing this up.

I'd have been quicker switching and getting a refund that way.

Cuntos

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That's us getting fucked again from March. 

Does anyone actually believe the prices will be coming down substantially? The current level is the new 'normal' now I think, and we'll probably be lucky to see it again. Think the cap will just keep rising and rising.

Farewell to multiple businesses as well. No chance they can afford these costs.

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1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

That's us getting fucked again from March. 

Does anyone actually believe the prices will be coming down substantially? The current level is the new 'normal' now I think, and we'll probably be lucky to see it again. Think the cap will just keep rising and rising.

Farewell to multiple businesses as well. No chance they can afford these costs.

Absolutely the new norm for many years to come.  Remember, drip feed the bad news so that the public accept it.

Relying so heavily on gas to create electricity left us at the mercy the price of gas.  I can’t see the price of gas dropping substantially.  In a world with an increasing population it’s hard to see how we will reduce demand (energy efficiency only goes so far) as well.

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Absolutely the new norm for many years to come.  Remember, drip feed the bad news so that the public accept it.
Relying so heavily on gas to create electricity left us at the mercy the price of gas.  I can’t see the price of gas dropping substantially.  In a world with an increasing population it’s hard to see how we will reduce demand (energy efficiency only goes so far) as well.
Gas is down at about 30p/therm atm. It had hit 570 at one point IIRC. Gas is not currently expensive.
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11 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:
26 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:
Absolutely the new norm for many years to come.  Remember, drip feed the bad news so that the public accept it.
Relying so heavily on gas to create electricity left us at the mercy the price of gas.  I can’t see the price of gas dropping substantially.  In a world with an increasing population it’s hard to see how we will reduce demand (energy efficiency only goes so far) as well.

Gas is down at about 30p/therm atm. It had hit 570 at one point IIRC. Gas is not currently expensive.

From what I can gather gas price is lower because it has been a far milder start to autumn / winter in the Nothern hemisphere than usual leading to a temporary glut of gas.  That is expected to change unfortunately.

Even today, it has been reported that were it not for the government’s help to maintain average energy bills come April to £3,000 (£500 less generous than just now) energy bills would be expected to increase to £3,700 per annum.

ETA I don’t think the gas price is as low as 30p per therm.

 

Edited by Shadow Play
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From what I can gather gas price is lower because it has been a far milder start to autumn / winter in the Nothern hemisphere than usual leading to a temporary glut of gas.  That is expected to change unfortunately.
Even today, it has been reported that were it not for the government’s help to maintain average energy bills come April to £3,000 (£500 less generous than just now) energy bills would be expected to increase to £3,700 per annum.
ETA I don’t think the gas price is as low as 30p per therm.
 
It certainly was on Tuesday, but tbh, even double that isn't expensive. We are getting fucked.

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13 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

It certainly was on Tuesday, but tbh, even double that isn't expensive. We are getting fucked.
 

It certainly hasn’t gone anywhere near 30p per therm according to this, and other, charts.

I wonder if you saw a ‘next day delivery’ price or something similar?  As I understand it the next day delivery is not the price companies buy the gas as they have bought well into the future.  A bit like when the price of oil went sub $0 during lockdown.

As you will see from the graph 270p is the going rate. 

99650595-E43A-444C-B544-2B8F334BB436.jpeg

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Even if gas prices drastically reduce, I doubt us customers will be seeing any significant decrease.

Remember, the scumbags feel they need to make record profits every year. It isn't enough to be making obscene profits every single year, they must increase annually.

Greed is fucking us all in so many ways, and in such short sighted ways.

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Quote

The latest predictions from analysts Cornwall Insight are for regulator Ofgem's price cap to increase to £3,740/year for a typical household from April – though the assessment period for that only started today – and will likely remain well above £3,000/year until the end of 2023.

CI were churning out cap figures of £6-7k in the summer, so the cap price clearly reflects currently falling prices. The government's bill for supporting prices is just being pared back massively. 

Europe is not out of the woods though and there's every chance that 23/24 could be a more difficult winter to get through in terms of supply and price than the current one. 

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17 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

It certainly hasn’t gone anywhere near 30p per therm according to this, and other, charts.

I wonder if you saw a ‘next day delivery’ price or something similar?  As I understand it the next day delivery is not the price companies buy the gas as they have bought well into the future.  A bit like when the price of oil went sub $0 during lockdown.

As you will see from the graph 270p is the going rate. 

99650595-E43A-444C-B544-2B8F334BB436.jpeg

Interesting. Il need to speak to the guy that organises all this shit at my work and try to understand what it is they are working with when they quote numbers at me. 

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11 minutes ago, virginton said:

CI were churning out cap figures of £6-7k in the summer, so the cap price clearly reflects currently falling prices. The government's bill for supporting prices is just being pared back massively. 

Europe is not out of the woods though and there's every chance that 23/24 could be a more difficult winter to get through in terms of supply and price than the current one. 

So, let me get this correct, the government have increased the price cap, whilst prices are falling, almost half of what they were in August. Which certainly cuts the government contribution massively but at the same time increasing the profits & therefore dividends of shareholders? It’s a grift from the suppliers assisted by the government. Is that a fair assessment? 

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1 hour ago, Brother Blades said:

So, let me get this correct, the government have increased the price cap, whilst prices are falling, almost half of what they were in August. Which certainly cuts the government contribution massively but at the same time increasing the profits & therefore dividends of shareholders? It’s a grift from the suppliers assisted by the government. Is that a fair assessment? 

The second part of your post is incorrect, because the profitability of energy companies is not really related to the government's price cap. 

The current support scheme involves the government handing over enormous amounts of money in IOUs to those companies to cover the gap between the cap and the actual market price for every household in the country. That's not a sustainable solution and if energy prices at least stabilise under £4k then I think that the new version will hold, for home users at least. Business energy costs are another matter. 

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That's the energy support being correctly targetted at those right at the bottom (£900) with everyone benefitting from a cap which saves us £700 from what it could easily have been. Wasn't that long ago we were predicted to be facing over £4k.
Complaining online about all of this is fine and dandy but we're going to have to suck it up I'm afraid and cut back on usage unless we are prepared to pay them these extortionate figures.
It's a bit shit having to watch the usage but needs must.
Just building up a rage about having to cut back isn't particularly healthy.
 
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58 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Complaining online about all of this is fine and dandy but we're going to have to suck it up I'm afraid and cut back on usage unless we are prepared to pay them these extortionate figures.

Or we could reconsider the folly of engaging in an energy war in the first place and start holding all the political leaders of Europe responsible for their hapless judgment and leadership.

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On 05/10/2022 at 16:41, DA Baracus said:

They were 100% at it. All these scumbag companies are. Will they also be refunding all of the interest they made from taking too much?

I wouldn't be surprised if they have a certain 'cut off' in terms of age of customers where they try to scam them (more than other customers I mean).

See the source image

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