Energy Prices

[welshbairn]

11 minutes ago, Loonytoons said:

 

 

That's a strange take on supply and demand markets Welshy.
The uncoupling of gas and electricity costs isn't far away though.

 

I don't think supply and demand pricing is sustainable in what is basically a state of economic war. Our supply prices shouldn't be determined by Putin when the cost of production hasn't changed for our suppliers. If we stopped supplying weapons to Ukraine it wouldn't change energy prices in the UK whatsoever, we need a Government that isn't a slave to free market capitalism, even in a crisis. The pipelines and electricity cables landing on the UK coast can't be instantly switched to another consumer country prepared to pay more. Not a total solution, but a price cap where we have control would help.

Edited August 26, 2022 by welshbairn

[TxRover]

4 hours ago, jagfox said:

What's the calorific value of a Tory? Asking for a friend...

Average human body is 125,822 (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/ancient-cannibals-did-not-eat-humans-nutrition-study-says-180962823/), but as the average Tory is likely a wee bit chunkier…

[welshbairn]

50 minutes ago, MuckleMoo said:

Sabbatical isn't an option on either unfortunately, you either pay the monthly contributions or they stop altogether. Still think the government has no option but to step in but if they somehow don't....

If the forecasts are accurate, (I don't think they are), pension and insurance companies are going to have to be more flexible or they'll go out of business or at least get a lot smaller.

Edited August 27, 2022 by welshbairn

[V.Aye.R]

8 hours ago, Loonytoons said:

Your low% savings will literally be pennies over the year.
You'll save literally pennies irrespective of how crazy the price cap gets. Your external walls should be well insulated anyway.

I may be wrong and happy to be corrected but I suspect there is next to nothing to be saved here.

Well, a BRE report a few years ago calculated savings of 80p to £4 per extrenal radiator (per year) depending on house construction. That's at normal energy prices too. 

Given that a roll of this stuff is under a tenner I'd say its worth it.

Edited August 27, 2022 by V.Aye.R

[V.Aye.R]

7 hours ago, MuckleMoo said:

It's kind of funny looking back at the start of the thread. Christ, even I was boasting on how I could afford the increase if I was just to cut back on a few 'luxuries'.

Now? If the government doesn't step in I'm kind of fucked! I'm seriously looking at cancelling my life insurance and pension just to make the payments I'm expected to make to the energy supplier, not to mention everything else that's rocketing up in price. It's going to be a grim few years for the vast majority of us I fear.






 

Please don't cancel the life cover. 

I've had my policy for around 5 years now and recently went to review it to suit my current circumstances. The broker said to me that new deals these days don't come close to what have been offered before. I'm talking double in terms of premiums. 

I guess if things get desperate then it's not viable but just something to consider. 

[Theroadlesstravelled]

10 hours ago, jagfox said:

What's the calorific value of a Tory? Asking for a friend...

This could be a great idea, there’s enough blubber on your average bun to fuel thousands of oil lamps.

[hk blues]

10 hours ago, Loonytoons said:

It'll stop the wall from absorbing heat. Is it worth it? My guess would be no.
Given the really obviously cost savours of cranking down the thermostat, turning off 'on standby' appliances, switching to LED bulbs etc. only lead to a modest saving, this sort of stuff is mere pennies over the year.

I'm pretty sure savings from using LED bulbs is more than pennies a year, even taking into account the up-front purchase cost.  Difference between stand-by and totally off for a TV is about a fiver a year or so not much to be saved there I'd agree.  Based on how much just 1° reduction in temperature reduces our electricity bill for A/C (10%) I'd imagine similar with turning down the thermostat on the central heating.

I suppose it's no more than every little helps.

[mizfit]

I don’t think my other half realised until yesterday I wasn’t being tight with energy. The look on her face when she seen the price cap was gut wrenching. Her work is now considering cutting hours to save their costs, and that could put us in a perilous position. 
 

This is deliberate by the Tory party, and I hope those who gleefully celebrated The Mop Haired c***s election in 2019 are destitute and ruined on Christmas Day. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by mizfit

[hk blues]

3 minutes ago, mizfit said:

I don’t think my other half realised until yesterday I wasn’t being tight with energy. The look on her face when she seen the price cap was gut wrenching. Her work is now considering cutting hours to save their costs, and that could put us in a perilous position. 
 

This is deliberate by the Tory party, and I hope those who gleefully celebrated The Mop Haired c***s election in 2019 are destitute and ruined on Christmas Day. 

I'm struggling to see how it can be at the same time deliberate by the Tories and capable of making their supporters destitute.

Rank incompetence more like.

 

[Zetterlund]

We've been experimenting with the hot water tank temperature to see how low we can go before it's not enough for hot showers etc. For years we heated it to 50C, then recently I reduced it to 45 which was still fine, but I've been strongly advised by Mrs Z that 40 is too low. We've settled for 42 for now.

I've worked out that not heating the extra 8 degrees between 42-50, twice daily & assuming an electric price of 40p/kWh, would save about 160 quid a year. This is with an air source heat pump - heating with an immersion heater only would be about £400 difference for those 8 degrees. So definitely something to look at for those with hot water tanks, as many people probably still heat to 65 degrees or so without thinking about it.

[hk blues]

1 minute ago, Zetterlund said:

We've been experimenting with the hot water tank temperature to see how low we can go before it's not enough for hot showers etc. For years we heated it to 50C, then recently I reduced it to 45 which was still fine, but I've been strongly advised by Mrs Z that 40 is too low. We've settled for 42 for now.

I've worked out that not heating the extra 8 degrees between 42-50, twice daily & assuming an electric price of 40p/kWh, would save about 160 quid a year. This is with an air source heat pump - heating with an immersion heater only would be about £400 difference for those 8 degrees. So definitely something to look at for those with hot water tanks, as many people probably still heat to 65 degrees or so without thinking about it.

Yep...heating the water and then having to add cold to cool it down makes no sense.  

[Detournement]

The 2019 Labour Manifesto. 

The one that smart sensibles said had "too many policies".

[Todd_is_God]

9 hours ago, welshbairn said:

I really don't think the forecasted horror prices for years to come will come to pass, much of the increase is artificial, like North Sea wind generated electricity being based on the price of Russian gas which is ridiculous. We actually import zero gas and oil from Russia. And the Government have an election coming up in the next couple of years so they can't afford to have all the care homes closing down, small businesses closing and people freezing to death. If you get into serious shit I'd ask for a contribution sabbatical rather closing down your insurance and pension.

True, but we do import about 50% of the gas we use. Regardless of the fact it comes from Norway, Qatar and the US and not Russia (previously about 3% came from Russia) that gas has to be bought at the global market price.

It's not Russian gas that is expensive because of a lack of supply, it's all gas.

[Todd_is_God]

33 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

many people probably still heat to 65 degrees or so without thinking about it.

 

31 minutes ago, hk blues said:

Yep...heating the water and then having to add cold to cool it down makes no sense.  

I touched on this yesterday, but 

"The primary method used to control the risk from Legionella is water temperature control. Water services should be operated at temperatures that prevent Legionella growth: Hot water storage cylinders (calorifiers) should store water at 60°C or higher."

[hk blues]

Just now, Todd_is_God said:

 

I touched on this yesterday, but 

"The primary method used to control the risk from Legionella is water temperature control. Water services should be operated at temperatures that prevent Legionella growth: Hot water storage cylinders (calorifiers) should store water at 60°C or higher."

So, keep it at 60° then, but not 65°+.

[welshbairn]

39 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

We've been experimenting with the hot water tank temperature to see how low we can go before it's not enough for hot showers etc. For years we heated it to 50C, then recently I reduced it to 45 which was still fine, but I've been strongly advised by Mrs Z that 40 is too low. We've settled for 42 for now.

I've worked out that not heating the extra 8 degrees between 42-50, twice daily & assuming an electric price of 40p/kWh, would save about 160 quid a year. This is with an air source heat pump - heating with an immersion heater only would be about £400 difference for those 8 degrees. So definitely something to look at for those with hot water tanks, as many people probably still heat to 65 degrees or so without thinking about it.

The guy that serviced our boiler told me there's a risk of Legionnaires' disease if the temperature's too low in the tank.

[Detournement]

14 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

True, but we do import about 50% of the gas we use. Regardless of the fact it comes from Norway, Qatar and the US and not Russia (previously about 3% came from Russia) that gas has to be bought at the global market price.

It's not Russian gas that is expensive because of a lack of supply, it's all gas.

It's only 20% of our total use. It could be lower if we still had storage facilities. 

The sane thing to would be to smooth the unit cost across all usage to the mean not to increase all prices to the peak cost. 

[Detournement]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The guy that serviced our boiler told me there's a risk of Legionnaires' disease if the temperature's too low in the tank.

There are roughly 150 cases contracted in the UK every year so it must be a small risk. 

[hk blues]

Just now, oaksoft said:

According to HSE, it's 20-45 degrees  which is the issue.

HSE - Legionella and Legionnaires' disease

Fair enough - the point still stands and even more so if it is 20°-45°

[Zetterlund]

16 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

 

I touched on this yesterday, but 

"The primary method used to control the risk from Legionella is water temperature control. Water services should be operated at temperatures that prevent Legionella growth: Hot water storage cylinders (calorifiers) should store water at 60°C or higher."

 

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The guy that serviced our boiler told me there's a risk of Legionnaires' disease if the temperature's too low in the tank.

Mine has a built-in weekly program taking it up to 55, as many modern systems do out of the box.

The requirement is to have a temperature at the outlets (taps & showers) of 50+. I believe most immersion heaters have a minimum setting above that for this reason.