Energy Prices

[Left Back]

14 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

 

Nah nah nah, what is YOUR proposal is what I’d like to know seeing as you are poo pooing the Don’t Pay UK campaign. Fair enough the wording might be poor but who the f**k actually cares (apart from you) about that? The point of the campaign is simple - we need the government to step in and do something. Go and watch Martin Lewis discussing it on YouTube. He says that it’s got to a point where even he has run out of advice for people who are struggling to pay their bills. He is calling for the government to step in, a guy (economist maybe, can’t remember) on BBC Scotland earlier today was saying the same. It really is quite simple - we are being robbed by these oil giants who are profiting from our misery. What do you suggest we do? Hope that the Tories do something or hope that the oil giants lower costs?

 

I’m not poo pooing anything.  I suggested this campaign might not be all that it appears to be.

I’m not offering solutions because unlike yourself, Martin Lewis and the rest of the echo chamber I can put about 4 seconds thought into it and see there is no magic wand to be waved to make this go away.

As a proponent of the government doing something please explain what it is you would like them to do, and as I said to the previous poster advocating the same, tell us how the fall out will be dealt with.

I’ve pointed out some of the obvious soundbite solutions and how they won’t fix this.  Feel free to share your insight on how this can be fixed.

[Left Back]

1 hour ago, jamamafegan said:

 

Nah nah nah, what is YOUR proposal is what I’d like to know seeing as you are poo pooing the Don’t Pay UK campaign. Fair enough the wording might be poor but who the f**k actually cares (apart from you) about that? The point of the campaign is simple - we need the government to step in and do something. Go and watch Martin Lewis discussing it on YouTube. He says that it’s got to a point where even he has run out of advice for people who are struggling to pay their bills. He is calling for the government to step in, a guy (economist maybe, can’t remember) on BBC Scotland earlier today was saying the same. It really is quite simple - we are being robbed by these oil giants who are profiting from our misery. What do you suggest we do? Hope that the Tories do something or hope that the oil giants lower costs?

 

Still waiting for you to wave your magic wand.

[dundeefc1783]

Was looking at my Energy account with Octopus today. Currently on their flexible tariff and direct debit is £250 a month having doubled when the cap went up. 

My account is currently sitting £646 in credit with a bill of probably around £90ish to come out in August. 

Now I fully understand building up credit for winter months but seriously just considering cancelling the DD and getting that money back and paying bills as they come in as I don't think there is any discount given for paying by DD like there used to be on a fixed tariff. 

 

[Left Back]

5 minutes ago, dundeefc1783 said:

Was looking at my Energy account with Octopus today. Currently on their flexible tariff and direct debit is £250 a month having doubled when the cap went up. 

My account is currently sitting £646 in credit with a bill of probably around £90ish to come out in August. 

Now I fully understand building up credit for winter months but seriously just considering cancelling the DD and getting that money back and paying bills as they come in as I don't think there is any discount given for paying by DD like there used to be on a fixed tariff. 

 

With Octopus you can go into your account online and change your DD without having to speak to a soul.  A couple of years ago they emailed me to say they were upping my DD.  I couldn’t figure out why so let them get on with it then changed it back the next day.  I guess they must have twigged it was a mistake on their part as I didn’t hear any more about it.

[dundeefc1783]

38 minutes ago, Left Back said:

With Octopus you can go into your account online and change your DD without having to speak to a soul.  A couple of years ago they emailed me to say they were upping my DD.  I couldn’t figure out why so let them get on with it then changed it back the next day.  I guess they must have twigged it was a mistake on their part as I didn’t hear any more about it.

Yeah I did speak to them online and said I could shift to a monthly bill rather than DD and have money refunded. Better it sitting in my bank account rather than theirs. 

[The Moonster]

12 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Yeah but this is people all over. Their interest in politics stops at posting "f**k the Tories".  A quick look at our Politics forum should convince you that not one of them really understands the basics of anything. That pattern is replicated throughout society. When you have a population with the attention span of a gnat, you have no chance of them ever understanding the complexity of the world around us

It's okay we've got you here to keep everyone right.

[Satoshi]

The overwhelming majority of Shell and BPs profits are made overseas, what entitles the UK to start requisitioning them?

[strichener]

1 hour ago, Satoshi said:

The overwhelming majority of Shell and BPs profits are made overseas, what entitles the UK to start requisitioning them?

In BP's case, the UK is still the companies single largest market.  The group company is also registered in the UK.  None of that directly answers your question but as has been mentioned previously, the French are effectively doing this with EDF.  Which they don't actually own, they are currently 84% shareholders.

I have expressed this opinion previously that it is the trading that needs to be curtailed rather than looking at producers.  BP stated with their results that their two main earners were refining and trading.  If we can require speculators in the market to have to physically take delivery of the commodities then we would see a marked drop in speculative trading.

[Bairnardo]

I wish I was much, much cleverer than the people I spend my time choosing to engage with.

[Mark Connolly]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

I wish I was much, much cleverer than the people I spend my time choosing to engage with.

I just wish I thought I was

[Bairnardo]

5 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

I just wish I thought I was

Ignorance is bliss.....

[Satoshi]

1 hour ago, strichener said:

In BP's case, the UK is still the companies single largest market.  The group company is also registered in the UK.  None of that directly answers your question but as has been mentioned previously, the French are effectively doing this with EDF.  Which they don't actually own, they are currently 84% shareholders.

I have expressed this opinion previously that it is the trading that needs to be curtailed rather than looking at producers.  BP stated with their results that their two main earners were refining and trading.  If we can require speculators in the market to have to physically take delivery of the commodities then we would see a marked drop in speculative trading.

The UK government (wrongly) sold its stake in BP so cannot exert that kind of influence.

It's interesting that you mention EDF because it ties to NOCs, Supermajors get the majority of press regarding Oil & Gas (majority negative of course) but even when combined they are responsible for only 10% of the worlds gas and oil output. NOCs produce 60% of oil and 50% of gas. They retain 2/3 of the remaining reserves of discovered oil and gas.

Supermajors will combined invest 15% of their capital spending on renewables (more for Shell / Total / BP) when combined with only 5% for NOCs.

BP and Shell are no where near the UKs biggest hydrocarbon producer, that falls on the relatively unknown private firm Harbour Energy. They saw years ago the obvious future for oil and gas in Europe was private companies, not big brands like Shell or BP. It's too hot a market for these big companies, Shell and BP have been divesting assets in these basins for decades (Harbour energy is a combination of old Shell and Premier Oil assets).

 

[strichener]

41 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

The UK government (wrongly) sold its stake in BP so cannot exert that kind of influence.

It's interesting that you mention EDF because it ties to NOCs, Supermajors get the majority of press regarding Oil & Gas (majority negative of course) but even when combined they are responsible for only 10% of the worlds gas and oil output. NOCs produce 60% of oil and 50% of gas. They retain 2/3 of the remaining reserves of discovered oil and gas.

Supermajors will combined invest 15% of their capital spending on renewables (more for Shell / Total / BP) when combined with only 5% for NOCs.

BP and Shell are no where near the UKs biggest hydrocarbon producer, that falls on the relatively unknown private firm Harbour Energy. They saw years ago the obvious future for oil and gas in Europe was private companies, not big brands like Shell or BP. It's too hot a market for these big companies, Shell and BP have been divesting assets in these basins for decades (Harbour energy is a combination of old Shell and Premier Oil assets).

 

The relatively unknown firm also has BG and Conoco assets now.  However, my point wasn't that BP were a big player in the North Sea but that the UK is still their biggest market.  The reality is that Harbour are all about extraction, BP is about the entire upstream and downstream markets.  How many Harbour Energy petrol stations have you come across?

One of the reasons that NOCs invest relatively little is that they normally partner with private companies or are like Saudi Aramco where the capital investment to produce is tiny compared to say deep water drilling in GoM.

Edited August 3, 2022 by strichener

[SuperSaints1877]

11 hours ago, oaksoft said:

There are rare exceptions but I think I'm on solid ground on that score. 

Prove me wrong. Direct me to a single adult debate on there.

But you said “not one of them really understands the basics of anything.”

That is blatantly a lie. I get that you don’t agree with everyone’s views or ideas but I’d argue there are some on that board whose views and arguments are far better than a vast number of over paid MPs, MSPs and councillors.

I won’t try and prove you wrong. Just let them debate.

Edited August 3, 2022 by SuperSaints1877

[TxRover]

13 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Actually, I wonder whether there's a business opportunity there to do that for people who don't know how to calculate it themselves. The arithmetic can be tricky.

Doubtful. It’s remarkably easy to generate a simple spreadsheet that could accept inputs of meter readings, location and energy costs and calculate it all. I wouldn’t doubt it’s already out there somewhere in rough form already.

Now, granted, reading a meter isn’t the simplest task, but even my grandma could learn…or could if she wasn’t pushing up the daisies.

[SuperSaints1877]

51 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I'm not stopping them. Not sure what your point is here TBH.

We should welcome the free speech we have in this country. What I despise is the paid politicians that have got us into this mess.

My point is that although you may class all the users on this forum as idiots, at least they are not responsible for the fcuking state our country is in. I’d hazard a guess that some of these so called idiots could have done a far better job than many paid employees in Westminster, Holyrood or local council offices up and down the country.

[SuperSaints1877]

55 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I'm not stopping them. Not sure what your point is here TBH.

Do you agree that saying “not one of them really understands the basics of anything” is a blatant lie?

[s_dog]

16 hours ago, dundeefc1783 said:

Yeah I did speak to them online and said I could shift to a monthly bill rather than DD and have money refunded. Better it sitting in my bank account rather than theirs. 

It's usually slightly more expensive to pay for your energy on receipt of a bill than by DD (because the suppliers obviously prefer it that way). In fact I just looked it up and it's more of a difference than I thought, see the note under the Energy price cap changes table on MSE. It says 

"The prepay price cap is about 2% higher, and for those who pay each month after getting a bill, 7% higher. That differential will likely continue."

It also depends how you view it, you can choose to look at it the way you are doing, better stopping the DD and have the money sitting in my own bank account. Or you can think I'm saving a wee bit and spreading a fixed payment equally throughout the year.

It is worth checking how much you actually use each year, and making sure that your DD is set to the right amount, instead of leaving it to your supplier to set it.

[bobbykdy]

2 hours ago, TxRover said:

Doubtful. It’s remarkably easy to generate a simple spreadsheet that could accept inputs of meter readings, location and energy costs and calculate it all. I wouldn’t doubt it’s already out there somewhere in rough form already.

Now, granted, reading a meter isn’t the simplest task, but even my grandma could learn…or could if she wasn’t pushing up the daisies.

Nerd alert for what I am about to post but I have had a spreadsheet set up for this very thing since 2017. Simply plug in my meter readings each month against my price per unit and another calculation to add on the 5% for the VAT. It has allowed me to calculate within a few pence each month what I should expect my bill to be once I put my readings into my suppliers site. Not everyone will have the time/inclination to do something so geeky but it stops any nasty surprises and allows a cross reference to make sure I agree with my bill.

[SuperSaints1877]

2 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Do you agree that saying “not one of them really understands the basics of anything” is a blatant lie?

Well @oaksoft ?

Why won’t you answer?