Dev Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 "Talking" of stray missiles: Extracts: //www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63637625 BBC News Europe 17th November 2022 MH17: Three guilty as court finds Russia-controlled group downed airliner By Anna Holligan & Kate Vandy A Dutch court has found three men guilty of murder for shooting down a passenger jet over eastern Ukraine in 2014, killing 298 people. The court found that a Russian-made missile supplied from Russia and fired by an armed group under Russian control brought down flight MH17. Silene Fredriksz lost her 23-year-old son when MH17 was shot down over Ukraine "It was heartbreaking for us," Silene says. She is convinced the current conflict could have been avoided had the world taken a harder line in 2014. "Putin has never been stopped, and still has not been stopped. And he will not stop until he is stopped," Silene said. I hope the world wakes up now, because we knew it already eight years ago." Russia has always denied any involvement and instead pumped out a range of alternative theories - suggesting a Ukrainian fighter jet fired the missile, or that Ukrainian government forces were responsible, and in some cases fabricated evidence to support their claims. These have in turn been diligently debunked with material gathered by a team of international investigators, and they were rejected by the Dutch court. The team found the disintegration of the plane in mid-air was caused by the detonation of a Russian-made 9N314M-type warhead carried on the 9M38M1 missile, launched from the eastern part of Ukraine using a Buk missile system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefybake Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 20 hours ago, Todd_is_God said: He's got a bit of a habit of getting ahead of himself in calling for NATO to get directly involved. There must be one or two leaders in NATO slightly nervous about whether or not he can be trusted not to order his troops to continue in to Russia should Ukranian forces reach the border. Only in your ever-contrarian dreams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 A Russian who doesn't buy the propaganda? That'll be the last we see of him, sadly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 9 hours ago, MP_MFC said: Was just about to post something similar as I see he is still adamant that it was not anything to do with Ukraine, when even the US first response is not to look to blame Russia you know it's a fair cop. Stop digging the hole and beginning to get the court of public opinion starting to question a lot of your other claims that are made when you are, by and large, accepted to be the victim here. He's backtracked on that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 33 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said: 43 minutes ago, welshbairn said: A Russian who doesn't buy the propaganda? That'll be the last we see of him, sadly. I seen a few contrary voices on Kremlin TV recently. This guy is refusing to express an opinion because he could be jailed for anything he says. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyDickFingers Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) Another "suicide".Anyone keeping score? <iframe width="100%" height="300" src="https://embeds.audioboom.com/posts/8281116/embed/hero" style="background-color: transparent; display: block; padding: 0; width: 100%; max-width: 700px;" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="allowtransparency" scrolling="no" title="Audioboom player" allow="autoplay" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-popups allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-storage-access-by-user-activation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation"></iframe> <iframe width="100%" height="300" src="https://embeds.audioboom.com/posts/8281116/embed/hero" style="background-color: transparent; display: block; padding: 0; width: 100%; max-width: 700px;" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="allowtransparency" scrolling="no" title="Audioboom player" allow="autoplay" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-popups allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-storage-access-by-user-activation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation"></iframe> Edited April 21, 2023 by TommyDickFingers Test 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 3 hours ago, TommyDickFingers said: Another "suicide".Anyone keeping score? It is Naval practice to bracket the target with the first couple of salvos before hitting it…just saying…helps to find the range. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 Looks like a Ukrainian naval drone (USV) hit a Russian ship docked in Novorossiysk on the Black Sea coast. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 Pretty nasty video has emerged showing a number of Russian prisoners being shot near Svatove. Circumstances are unclear but from the video it looks like one of the Russian troops made to surrender but then opened fire, killing several Ukrainians, whose comrades then fired back and killed all the Russians, including the shooter and those who had previously surrenderEd. I guess stuff like this happens in war all the time but isn’t pinged out onto your timeline. I wouldn’t seek out the video tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 Just now, ICTChris said: Pretty nasty video has emerged showing a number of Russian prisoners being shot near Svatove. Circumstances are unclear but from the video it looks like one of the Russian troops made to surrender but then opened fire, killing several Ukrainians, whose comrades then fired back and killed all the Russians, including the shooter and those who had previously surrenderEd. I guess stuff like this happens in war all the time but isn’t pinged out onto your timeline. I wouldn’t seek out the video tbh. Russians are selling it as a straightforward and unprovoked slaughter of their POWs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 18 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Russians are selling it as a straightforward and unprovoked slaughter of their POWs. Yea, they don’t comment on one of the surrendering troops opening fire. It’s a military version of if the cops have to come get you, they’re bringing an asswhipping with them. Can’t condone it, but you understand what happened. Someone with better video and knowledge will have to go over it literally frame by frame for any messing with it and to see who did what when before any real judgement can be passed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 This guy has gained prominence in the war - some of his takes are bad and I know a lot of people don’t have time for him. Nevertheless, he has military experience and this is his take on what happened 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 Mad that some countries are still servicing critical manufacturing capacity in the RU. Then there are still energy conduits running through Ukraine from the RU to other European nations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdul_Latif Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 6 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: Star Wars is shite and for un-trustable weirdos. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, TxRover said: Someone with better video and knowledge will have to go over it literally frame by frame for any messing with it and to see who did what when before any real judgement can be passed. *sweep sweep sweep* 1 hour ago, ICTChris said: This guy has gained prominence in the war - some of his takes are bad and I know a lot of people don’t have time for him. Nevertheless, he has military experience and this is his take on what happened I'm not sure what 'military experience' can offer to that objectively nonsense hot take. It's not feudal Europe and so there isn't a universal surrender procedure that crosses all cultural or contextual boundaries. When was this agreed on exactly - and in which European conflicts alone of the 20th/21st century was this practiced? Who exactly is doing the objective head count on which side has the larger force before surrendering from a vicious firefight and so following the set protocol? What of they think that they're the smaller force (hence the surrender)? There isn't some shan VAR official overseeing things. 1 hour ago, ICTChris said: I guess stuff like this happens in war all the time but isn’t pinged out onto your timeline. I wouldn’t seek out the video tbh. It absolutely does happen all the time and conflicts like WW1 and WW2 were packed with such instances involving every single major combatant. It's an understandable but dark feature of war regardless of the perpetrator. Victim-blaming or pretending it simply didn't happen is not a great look though coming from the same camp that quickly abandoned their outrage about those Polish civilians killed earlier this week, once it turned out to be the 'wrong' country responsible for it. Edited November 18, 2022 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) The post was pointing out that the Ukrainians were following standard procedure for taking surrendering soldiers - having them lie down one by one to be searched. The video then shows an attack by a Russian soldier and cuts out - the cameraman was apparently killed. There is a subsequent video of the same area with what looks like all the surrendering soldiers dead. So it seems that in response to the attack the Ukrainians opened fire with the weapons used for covering the surrender. Whether that happened in the fight or whether they were shot afterwards isn’t shown. Edited November 18, 2022 by ICTChris 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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