Russian invasion of Ukraine

[SweeperDee]

Nice knowing everyone. Polish government are maniacs.

[alta-pete]

My grandad was Polish. Escaped Poland as the Nazis invaded by walking to Scotland. Enlisted with the British Army and went back. And if all the medals are testament to anything it seems he had one hell of a time. I’d say the Poles are itching for a fight with somebody. Anybody.

For the current equivalence - have you ever seen a lazy Polish painter or joiner? 

[charger29]

Ukraine will be pushing the "it was intentional" angle very hard.

At best Russia has used up all their lifelines. Even if there is no significant response to the strike, they won't get away with something like this a second time. Irrespective of what caused it to land in Poland.

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

My grandad was Polish. Escaped Poland as the Nazis invaded by walking to Scotland. Enlisted with the British Army and went back. And if all the medals are testament to anything it seems he had one hell of a time. I’d say the Poles are itching for a fight with somebody. Anybody.

For the current equivalence - have you ever seen a lazy Polish painter or joiner? 

How did he?

[Steven W]

A smiling Zelensky said yesterday this was the beginning of the end of the war. He might well be right - just not sure in what way.

[alta-pete]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

How did he?

There might have been a boat involved for some of it. 

[renton]

I dont think NATO will take this as an article 5 deal, and I don't think it will trigger a no fly zone. The Russians will be back pedalling as fast as possible.

If it triggers any response I reckon it will be the NATO countries sending the longer range ATACMS to Ukraine. Maybe even begin integration efforts for some of the long range air to surface cruise missiles like Storm Shadow.

The rationale for not wanting NATO weaponry blasting bits of Russia looks pretty thin.

[Savage Henry]

59 minutes ago, jagfox said:

Article 4 most likely outcome and potential for no fly zone/ NATO air defence over Western Ukraine. 

Also, there may be some actual NATO hardware sent to Ukraine. 

 

No chance. A no fly zone would need a willingness to shoot down Russian jets.  Never going to happen. 

[DiegoDiego]

Are Poland any good, they didn't do much last time out?

Wojtek disagrees.

[jagfox]

4 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

No chance. A no fly zone would need a willingness to shoot down Russian jets.  Never going to happen. 

Not many Russian jets over Ukraine apart from the front lines.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

5 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

No chance. A no fly zone would need a willingness to shoot down Russian jets.  Never going to happen. 

I've got some holidays to use up, I'll give it a go.

[Hillonearth]

25 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

Wojtek disagrees.

I liked the story of a visiting American officer who saw Wojtek lugging boxes of shells around and asked the Poles what the f**k was going on...the Pole that was with him hit back quick as a flash:

"In America, you've got the right to bear arms...in Poland, we've got the right to arm bears."

[jagfox]

 

[H Wragg]

Just read about Wojtek on Wiki.

Some boy! Finished up in Edinburgh Zoo.

[TxRover]

7 minutes ago, jagfox said:

 

If that is confirmed and correct, there will be a NATO response. There simply is no way an act like that could be ignored.

[TxRover]

Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia all out the gates quick with concern and support for Poland (closeness to Russia clarifies the thought process)…next up is Hungary……that’s unexpected.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Aye, but apart from that?

The ground work for cracking Enigma?

[DiegoDiego]

Just read about Wojtek on Wiki.

Some boy! Finished up in Edinburgh Zoo.

There's a great statue of him in Princess Street Gardens. Had a bit of a picnic next to it a couple of years ago and saw a few families, both Polish and Scots, explaining the story to their children.

I know there was hoo-ha about Edinburgh having more statues of animals than women, but I think the Wojtek one does an excellent job of harmonising the Scots and Poles.

Bamse, the Norwegian dog buried with full military honours of whom a bronze stands proudly in Montrose, is another great tale. He used to get the bus to Dundee, head to the boozer and round the troops up when they were due back at base.

[TommyDickFingers]

3 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

There's a great statue of him in Princess Street Gardens.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

3 hours ago, dorlomin said:

Sorry for the more casual browsers, but I think that for something to be a causus belli, a reason to go to war, there has to be mens rea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

That is it has to be intentional.

This isn't war related but, fyi, mens rea is not the same as the act being intentional.

Mens rea is  a Latin term used to refer to the "mental element" of a crime, most crimes being comprised of (i) a physical element (the act, in Latin the actus reus) and (ii) a mental element (the mind state, in Latin the mens rea).

The mens rea can consist of either negligence, recklessness, or intention. For example, the actus reus of both murder and involuntary manslaughter is causing someone's death. The mens rea for murder is intent - you must have intended to murder (or cause GBH). In contrast, the mens rea of involuntary manslaughter is recklessness or negligence - i.e. you disregarded, or were unreasonably unaware, of the risk of causing death.

Idk if that made sense as it's late and, in any event, I am a boring b*****d.