Russian invasion of Ukraine

[renton]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

"Mixing" of a Missile And a Guided Aerial Bomb Makes It Possible to Strike As Far As 150km With HIMARS | Defense Express (defence-ua.com)

I have no idea what to make of this article but maybe some of you will make sense of it.

 

 

"Mixing" of a Missile And a Guided Aerial Bomb Makes It Possible to Strike As Far As 150km With HIMARS

Defense Express

ukr.defense.news@gmail.com

November 10, 2022

 

This way of hitting the rear russia’s occupying forces looks promising, but it currently exists only in advertising renders

The Polish Defence24 claims that the consortium consisting of Boeing and Saab "in the near future" hopes to receive an order for a GLSDB-type rocket designed to fire from the M142 HIMARS and M270 systems.

The article does not indicate what kind of customer it should be. But the very concept of the GLSDB ammunition is interesting here, which is basically a "hybrid" of the M26 unguided rocket and the GBU-38 SDB-I guided aerial bomb.

For the first time, the consortium consisting of Boeing and Saab presented its development under the index GLSDB in 2017. By design, this system should work like this; the M26 projectile launches the GBU-38 SDB-I aerial bomb to a certain height, which continues its flight and hits the target on a gentle trajectory.

The targeting of the aerial bomb during the final stage of the flight should be laser-guided. The developers claim that such a system is apparently capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 150km. Which is significantly higher than the indicator of 84km from GMLRS.

The unguided M26 projectile was chosen as the basis for the GLSDB because European countries have a high number of such missiles in stock, which were written off during the rejection from cluster weapons after the adoption of the "Oslo Convention" in 2008.

Or, it is quite possible that for all 5 years the GLSDB system has proved to be extremely impractical in real use. But the very vector of works on the topic of "how to compile a rocket and a guided aerial bomb" in order to increase the depth distance of damage to the enemy's rear looks quite promising.

 

 

Basically there is GMLRS-ER - this is the same as the standard guided round but extended out to 150km.

At the same time there is a large arsenal of the older unguided M30 rounds for the MLRS system. The proposal here is to take the SDB munition and bolt it onto the top of the old unguided munition.

This has two advantages: one, all your old unguided rockets are now guided and two, unlike the standard GPS guided munition the SDB (small diameter bomb) glide bomb has a seperate terminal guidance system that uses a combination of infra-Red, laser guided or millimetre wave radio which would allow it to hit pinpoint moving targets like Tanks.

Edited November 10, 2022 by renton

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

Is Ukraine in a great rush to occupy Kherson in the normal way? The Russians do not seem likely to want to come back from the left bank any time soon and it would be difficult for them to do so anyway....

There's probably some sort of secret deal. You let us retreat relatively unscathed and we won't flatten the place and shoot all the civilians that didn't evacuate when we asked them to sort of stuff. Something similar happened around Kharkiv in terms of the Russians suddenly leaving lots of places very easily they had no obvious need to at around the same time Izium didn't turn into the complete bloodbath that it could have done for them.

[TxRover]

6 hours ago, renton said:

Basically there is GMLRS-ER - this is the same as the standard guided round but extended out to 150km.

At the same time there is a large arsenal of the older unguided M30 rounds for the MLRS system. The proposal here is to take the SDB munition and bolt it onto the top of the old unguided munition.

This has two advantages: one, all your old unguided rockets are now guided and two, unlike the standard GPS guided munition the SDB (small diameter bomb) glide bomb has a seperate terminal guidance system that uses a combination of infra-Red, laser guided or millimetre wave radio which would allow it to hit pinpoint moving targets like Tanks.

Correct, but there is a red herring in the range listed.

The effective range of this combination is restricted by two things; the effective lift capacity of the old M30 rounds and the ability to provide terminal targeting data. What they are basically doing is using the old M30 rocket as an aircraft to launch the glide bombs from, the problem is ensuring, as people say, you get the biscuit in the basket. The laser designator for the weapon projects a cone shaped guidance envelope, and one whose shape and range varies based upon a number of considerations (angle of illumination, obstacles, etc).

This also means that the target has to be within visual sight of a targeting laser, this isn’t fire and forget like the HIMARS guided munitions are. Given the Ukrainian success in various other endeavours, this isn’t a massive hinderance, but it is a consideration. It doesn’t make it any less effective, especially for defensive purposes, but the article is a bit hyperbolic.

This particular weapon combination would be idea for Ukraine to use in response to a Russian attack. Basically a couple of HIMARS units sit deep behind the lines, when the Russians attack, you start lobbing a round into the air every minute, and someone at the front starts illuminating targets…as one is hit, you move to the next one, and the next warhead in the train redirects to the new target. It would decimate attacking armour if used well.

7 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Who said anything about flattening Kherson?

I'm talking about being patient in taking back Kherson because of the booby traps that will almost certainly have been left.

Even if Kherson is deserted it will take time to advance and neutralise devices.

100% this is what they have to do…and they HAVE to advance to prevent the Russians from leaving small observation teams in the area to help attack Ukrainian forces. Also, the Russians are reportedly redeploying half the withdrawn forces to other areas of SE Ukraine, so the Ukrainians will be at a manpower disadvantage until they can redeploy as we…but that has to wait until consolidation of Kherson. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by TxRover

[Sweet Pete]

BBC reported today that according to the US department of defence they estimate total Russian military casualties thus far (killed, wounded and missing combined) as 100k. And the same for Ukrainian forces. If true that is 1917 / 1940 levels. War of attrition indeed.

[ICTChris]

The entirity of Mykolaiv Oblast has been liberated.  Russia had held a small part of the territory there but it's now been retaken.  Numerous settlements also being retaken by Ukrainian forces today.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Kherson city.  Some Ukrainian units are within 10 miles of the city now.

[welshbairn]

There's talk of Russia setting up artillery on the East bank to bomb Ukrainian positions at will, but they'd surely be vulnerable to counter attack. I'm expecting an uneasy truce across the Dnipro over the Winter at least.   

[LongTimeLurker]

54 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

The entirity of Mykolaiv Oblast has been liberated....

Seen that as well but doubt it's true because part of the left bank of the Dniepr that juts out into the Black Sea is in that oblast for some bizarre reason.

Knowing that is probably a sign that I have spent way too much time staring at maps of Ukraine since late February. It's easy to forget just how far the Russians got at the very start of the war. They had to go all the way up to Voznesensk because of how tenaciously the local Ukrainian forces held onto Mykolaiv and the bridge the Russians needed to try to reach Odesa and Transnistria.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

There's talk of Russia setting up artillery on the East bank to bomb Ukrainian positions at will, but they'd surely be vulnerable to counter attack. I'm expecting an uneasy truce across the Dnipro over the Winter at least.   

Think it usually freezes for a bit and that's how the Red Army were able to get across during WWII.

[Leith Green]

Not sure this is the right place for it, but a wee bit of positivity. This girl has uprooted herself, left her family and friends and come across to Scotland. Good to see she is getting to continue working her way up the refs ladder.

 

 

[dorlomin]

59 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Think it usually freezes for a bit and that's how the Red Army were able to get across during WWII.

Ukrainians have told me that it gets ice floes in it but it never really freezes. Certainly not that far south. Ukraine get cold in a central Europe kind of way, not in a Russia kind of way. Kherson is on the same latitude as Milan, though will get a lot colder due to the winds from being deeper in the continent. 

I am not sure how the cold will affect the war. British soldiers would get an arse kicking if you tried to argue its "too cold" even at -20C, but we are a professional army with all the proper gear. We have units that specialise in Arctic warfare. 

I have a hunch that the low key press releases from the likes of Finland, Germany, the UK etc on winter gear may give Ukraine units with a real edge. Its not going to be most of the army, but they may have enough to keep up pressure. Fighting in the cold is all about having the right equipment and the will. 

That said I expect winter to do more damage to the mobiks than Ukraine. Properly kitted out cold weather is a pain in the arse. If you are improperly kitted you can end up losing fingers, toes, seriously ill and worst case hypothermia. 

[welshbairn]

Not especially relevant given the surprising infectiveness of the Russian air force against manpads and the like, but otherwise an interesting comparison, the Winter War against Finland.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/david-vs-goliath/  

[LongTimeLurker]

See there's tweets now that the Ukrainians are entering Kherson city. Hope this old guy is still around to enjoy their arrival:

 

 

 

[TxRover]

2 hours ago, welshbairn said:

There's talk of Russia setting up artillery on the East bank to bomb Ukrainian positions at will, but they'd surely be vulnerable to counter attack. I'm expecting an uneasy truce across the Dnipro over the Winter at least.   

If the Russians have any competent military leaders left in the area, they would have surveyed and mapped, complete with geo-coordinates, all the possible observation positions on the west bank of the Dnipro, along with any locations that seem potentially useful to the Ukrainians. Then you set your artillery up in a pre-mapped position, shooting at known coordinates, and you can drop a few round directly into the other chaps coffee cups. Of course, then you are vulnerable to counter-battery fire.

[Newbornbairn]

It's not all one-way

 

https://eurasiantimes.com/russia-is-outfoxing-ukrainian-warplanes-with-its-foxhounds-mig-31/

 

Quote

Russia Is ‘Outfoxing’ Ukrainian Warplanes With Its Foxhounds

 

[ICTChris]

Reports on Russian channels that Ukraine are shelling the crossing points tonight.

[ICTChris]

 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

If genuine this suggests the Russians don't expect to be the ones repairing the bridge across the Dniepr at Kherson in future:

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by LongTimeLurker

[doulikefish]

27 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

If genuine this suggests the Russians don't expect to be the ones repairing the bridge across the Dniepr at Kherson in future:

 

Also suggests they don't think they will be back soon and are more worried about destroying/covering any retreating/advancing routes for them and Ukraine forces 

[ICTChris]

Interesting quote from the Wagner adjacent Grey Zone Telegram channel, calling out their own sides cope about fighting all of NATO.

 

 

 

[madmitch]

20 hours ago, Sweet Pete said:

BBC reported today that according to the US department of defence they estimate total Russian military casualties thus far (killed, wounded and missing combined) as 100k. And the same for Ukrainian forces. If true that is 1917 / 1940 levels. War of attrition indeed.

 Not yet... 1939–1940 inflicted devastating losses on the Red Army, including the deaths of at least 126,875 soldiers and the wounding of 264,908. That was solely from the war with Finland.