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Russian invasion of Ukraine


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From Putin's speech to the crowds on Red Square.

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I cannot help but go back to the time when the Soviet Union was formed, when Russia was creating modern Ukraine. It was Russia that created modern Ukraine, giving it significant swathes of land, historical lands of Russia, along with the people, who no one asked about where and how they want to live, how they see the future of their children, and in which country. The same thing happened when the Soviet Union broke apart. The elites decided everything among themselves, and no one asked millions of ordinary citizens anything.

Only now, only modern Russia has given the residents of the Lugansk People's Republic, the Donetsk People's Republic, Zaporozhye and Kherson the right to choose. People came to the referendum and made their choice to be with their historical homeland, Russia.

The referendum on Ukrainian independence in 1991:

image.thumb.png.bb6f3ed54603496ba04dc4e047396fbb.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum

Edited by welshbairn
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4 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

One of the usual Ivans will be along shortly to explain that that's not valid.

Exactly. Apparently nobody read the text of the speech and just decided it was full of bullshit and that if we just took the time to see what he was saying, it would he proved that Russia was in the right all along. Or something. America bad, Biden has dementia, George Soros.

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From Putin's speech to the Kremlin elites.

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Let’s answer some very simple questions for ourselves. Now I would like to return to what I said and want to address also all citizens of the country – not just the colleagues that are in the hall – but all citizens of Russia: do we want to have here, in our country, in Russia, “parent number one, parent number two and parent number three” (they have completely lost it!) instead of mother and father? Do we want our schools to impose on our children, from their earliest days in school, perversions that lead to degradation and extinction? Do we want to drum into their heads the ideas that certain other genders exist along with women and men and to offer them gender reassignment surgery? Is that what we want for our country and our children? This is all unacceptable to us. We have a different future of our own.

Let me repeat that the dictatorship of the Western elites targets all societies, including the citizens of Western countries themselves. This is a challenge to all. This complete renunciation of what it means to be human, the overthrow of faith and traditional values, and the suppression of freedom are coming to resemble a “religion in reverse” – pure Satanism. Exposing false messiahs, Jesus Christ said in the Sermon on the Mount: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” These poisonous fruits are already obvious to people, and not only in our country but also in all countries, including many people in the West itself.

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/69465

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9 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Exactly. Apparently nobody read the text of the speech and just decided it was full of bullshit and that if we just took the time to see what he was saying, it would he proved that Russia was in the right all along. Or something. America bad, Biden has dementia, George Soros.

Yeah - I watched the thing live. There might have been some salient points in there somewhere, but by and large it felt like getting trapped at the far end of the bar while a drunk you used to know slightly rambles on about the state of his shitty life.

It was only missing the part where he mentioned NATO turning the weans against him.

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6 hours ago, Newbornbairn said:

For most of WWII, the Soviets had little or no aluminium production. Between 1941-43 they had absolutely none until they managed to get one plant running (their 3 main sites were dismantled and moved East of the Urals to stop the Germans getting them).  Aluminium is essential for aircraft production hence the huge number of planes sent to them by the West. The US also supplied over 300,000 tons of aluminium directly. Without Western support, the Soviets would have had virtually no air force at all.

 

Western support was key to the Soviet victory. In essence, the West supplied the kit, the Soviets supplied the manpower.

 

This time around, the Ukrainians are supplying the manpower and the West are supplying the kit. 

Aluminium is not 'kit' you utter fantasist. Good luck sending similar raw materials to the kleptocracy in Kiev and expecting them to produce a war-winning effort. 

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19 minutes ago, virginton said:

Aluminium is not 'kit' you utter fantasist. Good luck sending similar raw materials to the kleptocracy in Kiev and expecting them to produce a war-winning effort. 

You mean like the Neptune missile that sank the Moskva?

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43 minutes ago, virginton said:

Aluminium is not 'kit' you utter fantasist. Good luck sending similar raw materials to the kleptocracy in Kiev and expecting them to produce a war-winning effort. 

Trying to work out if you're at it or just thick.

Tough call. 

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3 hours ago, Detournement said:

There seems to have been very little reaction to the content of Putin's speech other than libs saying it was demented rantings. As ever the opposite is true and it was a very effectively targeted piece of propaganda. The main conflict/contradiction at the moment is US Dollar hegemony and what replaces that, that will have had a big impact in the Global South.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/5/6/rich-countries-drained-152tn-from-the-global-south-since-1960

The stuff about leaders being spied on was a reference to the CIA bugging Merkel's phone and all of the EU offices. Again a comment targeted at EU citizens that aren't happy at the freeze for Ukraine line coming from the other side of the Atlantic and being enforced by domestic politicians.

 

 

TBF, if I wanted a textbook definition of a demented rant I'd be hard-pressed to find a better example than the following without plumbing the depths of your posting history:

You think this is effectively-targetted propaganda? Fair enough. 

"Let me repeat that the dictatorship of the Western elites targets all societies, including the citizens of Western countries themselves. This is a challenge to all. This complete renunciation of what it means to be human, the overthrow of faith and traditional values, and the suppression of freedom are coming to resemble a “religion in reverse” – pure Satanism. Exposing false messiahs, Jesus Christ said in the Sermon on the Mount: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” These poisonous fruits are already obvious to people, and not only in our country but also in all countries, including many people in the West itself."

 

I'd like an honest response from @virginton and @Todd_is_God about how exactly any rational person could have talked Putin down from this particular window-ledge of insanity to avoid war in Ukraine in February. Come on guys. Defend this speech of Putin's if you can. Show us what the West could have realistically with this rather obvious nutjob.

Edited by oaksoft
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Apparently some of the Russian military bloggers are claiming reinforcements were promised to Lyman but they never arrived. Speculation about the progress of Ukraine, there are pictures of Ukrainian troops in the outskirts. Some places say Lyman has been liberated by Ukrainian troops, others that battle is ongoing.

 

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Unable to comment on the truth of what follows:-

 

euromaidanpress.com/2022/10/01/ukrainian-troops-enter-donetsks-lyman-as-officials-confirm-liberation-of-five-nearby-settlements/

Meanwhile, local chats have a number of unconfirmed and necessarily true accounts of the situation in and around Lyman, here a just a few of them:

  • “Friends called me from Zelenyi Klyn (a railway station in northwestern Lyman, – Ed.) – they already have Ukraine there. [Ukrainian security forces] have already walked home to home checking documents. The Vodafone [mobile provider’s] communication emerged. It was quiet at night, finally, they could sleep”
  • “[Ukrainian troops] are in Lyman, they’ve already visited my loved ones, the northern part. Lyman’s Ukraine”
  • “Called to [Lyman’s] northern part, the area of Pryozerna: it’s calm in the city, the Russians are leaving via Zarichne, our guys gave them time to go out…”
  • “Called to Zarichne, Ukrainian soldiers are in the center of the village, they haven’t walked along the streets yet”
  • “[Ukrainian troops] are in Torske”

It is unknown if the Russian troops coordinated their retreat from Lyman with Ukrainian forces – such coordination would be questionable. However, what the reports have in common is claiming that the Ukrainian troops are already in control of at least the northern outskirts of Lyman.

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Not doing a coup in 2014, recognising that political uprisings in Russian speaking regions were as legitimate as those in Ukranian speaking regions, not passing laws that discriminated against Russian speakers, implementing Minsk, making a new European security pact last December, not increasing the shelling of Donetsk in February. 

There were also negotiations between Kiev and Moscow in April where an agreement was close to being reached which Boris Johnson flew to Kiev to scuper. 

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Then this. Again, no idea how accurate or inaccurate:-

 

twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1576097374883418112

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The road between Zarichne-Kreminna is an absolute killzone 😮 later we will find out once the area is clear, but horrific things happening for Russian forces there.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Replying to
I've already read one account and it is absolutely shocking.
 
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Then this:-

 

 

Pendergast Books
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I'm abandoning my usual policy of not advertising things I'm involved in to encourage people to read this. This is going on right now. The subject of the Ukraine Volunteer blog is west of Kreminna and his unit caught Russian troops evacuating from Lyman.
 

“its a slaughter”

 Ukrainian War Volunteer Uncategorized September 30, 2022 3 Minutes

3:32pm, September 30th, San Francisco
1:32am, October 1st, Eastern Ukraine

Moved north.

its a slaughter

cut them off west of kreminna. got to go.

Stay safe. Lyman totally cut off?

I think so, engadging thos going east.

Ok, talk to you on the other side

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Edited by Dev
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If the latest is accurate it looks as though the Ukrainians have allowed the Russian forces to try to escape to the north-east and then slaughtered them before chasing them through Kreminna(?). 

The Russians did this to the Ukrainians in a previous War. The Ukrainians learned that lesson.

War is gut wrenching whichever side it applies to, and especially to those actually paying the ultimate price. Thanks to Rabid Dog Putin. Poor creature needs to be put out of his misery. 

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10 minutes ago, Dev said:

If the latest is accurate it looks as though the Ukrainians have allowed the Russian forces to try to escape to the north-east and then slaughtered them before chasing them through Kreminna(?). 

The Russians did this to the Ukrainians in a previous War. The Ukrainians learned that lesson....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ilovaisk#Government_forces_retreat_and_massacre

We'll soon find out how true this is:

 

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