Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Dan Steele]

19 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

If that's a genuine quote from NS it's incredible tbh. 

 

1 hour ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

How does Daily Mail political editor get that from the two statements in quotes? What's the ellipsis missing out? That seems a very misleading statement, free of any context.

 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

19 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

28 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

If that's a genuine quote from NS it's incredible tbh. The woman who is determined to remove Nuclear weapons from Scotland would actively support engaging in armed conflict with a Nuclear superpower. Wow.
Proof, if proof was ever needed, that NS has lost the plot.
As for her, straight out the covid phrasebook, quote about no politician ruling anything out, I beg to differ. Given the potential consequences of escalation, a "No Fly Zone" over Ukraine is something which 100% should be ruled out. Sometimes care more policies just aren't appropriate.

Did you read the quote or just the Daily Heil interpretation of the quote?

I’m guessing…..

[Albus Bulbasaur]

I'm not really a fan of Sturgeon but is this not a bit like the whole nuclear yes or no trivial politics you see on Question Time?

I think if she had effectively ruled out any form of potential NATO intervention then she would be accused of failing the "would you push the button" test that the UK media loves to subject politicians to. I think most politicians will be on high alert when it comes to ruling out possible deterrences at this time. 

[Billy Jean King]

If the UK ever does get involved in policing a no fly zone over Ukraine, that decision will have been made with zero input from Nicola Sturgeon or anyone else in the Scottish parliament. It's incredible to think anyone can honestly believe that the FM of Scotland would be making decisions like that hence her opinion on it is neither here nor there !

If it happens the blame will sit squarely with the parliament at Westminster as presumably any decision on an issue like that would require it to be passed by the HoC.

[Frank Quitely]

1 minute ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

I'm not really a fan of Sturgeon but is this not a bit like the whole nuclear yes or no trivial politics you see on Question Time?

I think if she had effectively ruled out any form of potential NATO intervention then she would be accused of failing the "would you push the button" test that the UK media loves to subject politicians to. I think most politicians will be on high alert when it comes to ruling out possible deterrences at this time. 

Politicians never utter a word without considering how it will play with the electorate and in that respect I think Nicola Sturgeon would be better hammering the UK Government on their disgraceful intransigence in taking a proportionate share of Ukrainian refugees.  The rabid right and the gammons would hate it, but they already hate her anyway, but apart from being the right thing to do it would find much favour across the UK.

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

I'm not really a fan of Sturgeon but is this not a bit like the whole nuclear yes or no trivial politics you see on Question Time?

I think if she had effectively ruled out any form of potential NATO intervention then she would be accused of failing the "would you push the button" test that the UK media loves to subject politicians to. I think most politicians will be on high alert when it comes to ruling out possible deterrences at this time. 

Given we don't know what questions she was responding to or what was left out of her answers, we have no way of telling what she meant. But it wouldn't be wise for any politician, even one with no military power, to say do what you like in Ukraine, turn Kiev into Grozny or Aleppo if you like, there is zero chance of the West ever intervening. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by welshbairn

[doulikefish]

All the zoomers getting all riled up by a daily hell quote didn't take long to turn this thread into a mess along with the "die quietly and stop talking about no fly zones" quote today it's all downhill from here

[TommyDickFingers]

4 hours ago, bennett said:

The Ukrainians are claiming they hit the Russian Navy Project 22160 patrol ship Vasily Bykov last night with MLRS fire.

I wouldn't worry about a lucky hit from a grad rocket on a patrol boat. 

This one on the other hand would suggest now is probably a good time for you to clear your browser history m8

 

[Todd_is_God]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

it wouldn't be wise for any politician, even one with no military power, to say do what you like in Ukraine, turn Kiev into Grozny or Aleppo if you like, there is zero chance of us ever intervening. 

Why? It genuinely isn't up to NATO to defend Ukraine with military action. Putin could flatten Kyiv tonight and nothing would change on that front, because it's clear what that may lead to.

Besides, they are intervening. But doing so in a way that doesn't lead to direct conflict.

[itzdrk]

3 hours ago, WATTOO said:

Yes, but "the limits" have been getting ridiculous recently.

This "oh I take offence to that" has become the norm and indeed the war cry of anyone who just doesn't like what their opponents are arguing and makes it too easy to just ignore / cancel anything which leads to debate.

Sorry, but that's just not on.

Sounds like you have taken offence to it. 

[welshbairn]

5 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Why? It genuinely isn't up to NATO to defend Ukraine with military action. Putin could flatten Kyiv tonight and nothing would change on that front, because it's clear what that may lead to.

Besides, they are intervening. But doing so in a way that doesn't lead to direct conflict.

Deterrence is about the other side being aware of your capabilities and having some doubt about when you'd be prepared to use it. It's meant to constrain madness like this.

Edited March 7, 2022 by welshbairn

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, welshbairn said:

Deterrence is about the other side being aware of your capabilities and having some doubt about when you'd be prepared to use it. 

NATO have already said there will be no No Fly Zone or boots on the ground, though.

Putin can do what he likes in Ukraine and nothing will change.

The deterrence is what will keep him there.

[itzdrk]

2 hours ago, Lyle Lanley said:

 

 

 

Ludicrous that she's being asked that tbf, hilarious she's answering it as well. 

[Brother Blades]

19 minutes ago, Frank Quitely said:

Politicians never utter a word without considering how it will play with the electorate and in that respect I think Nicola Sturgeon would be better hammering the UK Government on their disgraceful intransigence in taking a proportionate share of Ukrainian refugees.  The rabid right and the gammons would hate it, but they already hate her anyway, but apart from being the right thing to do it would find much favour across the UK.

She has, and reiterated again today. 

[itzdrk]

1 hour ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

I had forgotten that she existed for a while there.

Now that I’ve remembered, much more on board with nuclear war. 

I want her to impose the no fly zone. 

 

[alta-pete]

1 hour ago, Melanius Mullarkay said:

I’m not commenting any further until I’ve heard Janey Godley tell Putin to f**k off and then ask Frank to get the door.

Good!

[alta-pete]

1 hour ago, Melanius Mullarkay said:

*the UN Secretary General has entered the chat*

 

1 hour ago, Melanius Mullarkay said:

There mere whiff of Nicola has them like moths to a flame.

 

40 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkay said:

I’m guessing…..

Ohhh…

[Captain Saintsible]

25 minutes ago, Frank Quitely said:

Politicians never utter a word without considering how it will play with the electorate and in that respect I think Nicola Sturgeon would be better hammering the UK Government on their disgraceful intransigence in taking a proportionate share of Ukrainian refugees.  The rabid right and the gammons would hate it, but they already hate her anyway, but apart from being the right thing to do it would find much favour across the UK.

“Gammon”

A derogatory term used by the well off middle class left to describe someone of the working class who Just doesn’t understand that the middle class left knows what’s best for them 

[itzdrk]

Just now, Captain Saintsible said:

“Gammon”

A derogatory term used by the well off middle class left to describe someone of the working class who Just doesn’t understand that the middle class left knows what’s best for them 

It's middle class v middle class.  Accusers and the accused are all tragic. 

[coprolite]

13 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

NATO have already said there will be no No Fly Zone or boots on the ground, though.

Putin can do what he likes in Ukraine and nothing will change.

The deterrence is what will keep him there.

NATO haven't actually ruled out a no fly zone. Some members' politicians have (ie ours) but NATO has just explained that it isn't going into Ukraine. 

Has a NATO spokesman definitely been asked a hypothetical about whether they would rule out anything specific? Because i 'd bet good money that they wouldn't commit to anything.