Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Sergeant Wilson]

19 minutes ago, 101 said:

An unbelievable clip, however perhaps Div could loop him saying "the wild west world of online where I grave widely" to be a sort of sound bite when you land in the General Nonsense forum.

Never trust a hippie!

[BFTD]

Yon Neil Oliver laddie is clearly a certain P&B poster who also never knows anything about a subject, yet holds very strong opinions that his wife agrees with.

22 minutes ago, Detournement said:

There has been a lot of contentious claims about military technology on the thread but there is no arguing the fact that Russians lead the world in illegal torrenting. 

Putin should put 1080p copies of new releases on Russian council telly to show he's not backing down.

I mind the days when Scotland was Europe's capital for pirate material.

Like so many things, we're shite at that now too. It'll be the obesity and drugs next.

[Stellaboz]

Asking why Taiwan can't join NATO is ludicrous behaviour.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Oliver's point about media coverage was spot on. There has been loads of fake news and ridiculous memeable content on MSM channels and very little information about the locations of fronts and actual fighting. Constantly parroting Ukranian defence ministry casualty figures isn't very credible either. 

There is the actual war then a TV war which is obviously crafted with the hope that western populations don't get too pissed off about the economic impacts which are coming later this year.

This is exactly what I was saying earlier, the likes of Sky and BBC are just running the same 4 or 5 stories on a loop and basically we know nothing of what's going on.

I can honestly say that this is the poorest "NEWS" coverage I can ever remember and that's despite dedicated channels, modern technology and a myriad of reporters and journalists.

All very strange.

[bennett]

3 hours ago, Lyle Lanley said:

 

 

They're desperate for help, if it was happening here then we'd be the same.

[Savage Henry]

5 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Yon Neil Oliver laddie is clearly a certain P&B poster who also never knows anything about a subject, yet holds very strong opinions that his wife agrees with.

I mind the days when Scotland was Europe's capital for pirate material.

Like so many things, we're shite at that now too. It'll be the obesity and drugs next.

Scottish pirate material you say?

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, bennett said:

 

They're desperate for help, if it was happening here then we'd be the same.

Indeed, but can anyone hand on heart say they'd be willing to give up their own life in order to help the Ukraine ?

I'll be honest, if it's a choice between saving Ukranians and undoubtedly starting WW3, then I'm afraid the Ukranians are expendable.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, WATTOO said:

Indeed, but can anyone hand on heart say they'd be willing to give up their own life in order to help the Ukraine ?

I'll be honest, if it's a choice between saving Ukranians and undoubtedly starting WW3, then I'm afraid the Ukranians are expendable.

They had 8 years to sort out their civil war and did nothing to implement the peace agreement. They may want to closer to home than the UK PM. 

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, WATTOO said:

Indeed, but can anyone hand on heart say they'd be willing to give up their own life in order to help the Ukraine ?

I'll be honest, if it's a choice between saving Ukranians and undoubtedly starting WW3, then I'm afraid the Ukranians are expendable.

They at least have the option of surrendering, Putin would never see my white flag if WW3 kicked off.

[Jambomo]

Just now, WATTOO said:

Indeed, but can anyone hand on heart say they'd be willing to give up their own life in order to help the Ukraine ?

I'll be honest, if it's a choice between saving Ukranians and undoubtedly starting WW3, then I'm afraid the Ukranians are expendable.

The question is whether it’s started already. He’s got away with doing this in the Crimea and Georgia before, Ukraine may not be the last of it, nobody really knows for sure what he is trying to achieve, it’s clearly not just about the disputed areas.

Letting the Ukrainians fight this alone can go two ways, either it’s us starting WW3 or possible Nuclear war, or we are just staving it off for a later date and he keeps going.

 

[Bairnardo]

The question is whether it’s started already. He’s got away with doing this in the Crimea and Georgia before, Ukraine may not be the last of it, nobody really knows for sure what he is trying to achieve, it’s clearly not just about the disputed areas.
Letting the Ukrainians fight this alone can go two ways, either it’s us starting WW3 or possible Nuclear war, or we are just staving it off for a later date and he keeps going.
 

That, presumably is one of the many purposes of the sanctions.

Russia, or Putin, cant go on like this. An accord has to be reached.


Eta an accord thats probbaly a horrendous pill to swallow for Ukraine that means guerilla campaigns and humans right atrocities in the region for decades, but as ling as Nato and Russia are haply.....

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

We're a very long way from that right now.

This should end in Ukraine providing NATO stay out of getting involved in the conflict.

 

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that @Inanimate Carbon Rodcan tell the difference between me stating a fact and me stating an opinion without me insulting his intelligence by spelling it out.

No i dont mean ww3 i just mean, the world in general is absolutely fucked, from governments beholden to foreign powers, large companies that plunge people into fuel and food poverty in developed countries by raising prices massively yet turning record profits, a public who care more about im a celebrity than political corruption and believe things written on the sides of buses. The world is absolutely fucked. I genuinely cannot believe what kind of planet we are leaving to our children. 

[BFTD]

4 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Indeed, but can anyone hand on heart say they'd be willing to give up their own life in order to help the Ukraine ?

I'll be honest, if it's a choice between saving Ukranians and undoubtedly starting WW3, then I'm afraid the Ukranians are expendable.

That's not the choice, though. It's enduring WW3, or waiting to see if Russia are going to stick or twist, then enduring WW3 a bit later.

[ICTChris]

Ukrainian hackers have obtained and published the full list of names and details of 120,000 Russian soldiers involved in the invasion.

In my work I've been spending a lot of time on preparation for cyber attacks related to the invasion.  Seems like most of the major attacks have been on Russia - TASS, the state TV hack and now this.  Ukraine had some just before the invasion with banks targeted (some suggestions banks in Russia have been attacked as well) but the internet still seems up.

US defense department have briefed out some of their understanding of the conflict.  US intelligence seem to have been pretty accurate pre-invasion.  Currently, they see the large convoy outside of Kyiv having stalled, probably due to lack of fuel.  Naval infantry haven't yet reached Mariupol but do appear to have landed.  No moves made against Odessa as yet.  A significant number of the Russian soldiers are young conscripts, many were unaware they were being sent into conflict.  Russia has launched more than 400 missiles into Ukraine since the start of the war.

[Jambomo]

3 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

That, presumably is one of the many purposes of the sanctions.

Russia, or Putin, cant go on like this. An accord has to be reached.


Eta an accord thats probbaly a horrendous pill to swallow for Ukraine that means guerilla campaigns and humans right atrocities in the region for decades, but as ling as Nato and Russia are haply.....

I think that an accord only works if they keep these heavy sanctions on them for the foreseeable future, even post conflict. If Russia is crippled as a country by this then it’ll be plain that it wasn’t worth it. If they get some of Ukraine and are allowed to recover, then they’ll see it as worth it and do it again.

[welshbairn]

Insulate Britain have arrived to offer their support.

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by welshbairn

[Del79]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

 

When warning shots from an assault rifle fails, just beep your horn!

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The world is absolutely fucked tbh. 

Taiwan wouldn’t be accepted into NATO, but i do believe that the US has some kind of statutory obligation to defend Taiwan, which essentially gives it NATO protection without the status. 

The US has fudged the Taiwan issue ever since Nixon's visit to China, just like NATO has fudged the issue of Ukraine's future.

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

The Taiwan situation is completely different.

The rest of the world in general has never had to deal with Chinese aggression and expansionism in the way we had to over Russia (Cold War era). I don't ever recall hearing China directly threaten the West with war or conflict or nuclear weapon attacks outside of what it considers it's territories. I don't recall Chinese aircraft flying over northern Scotland to see what response they can trigger.

You're simply betraying your complete ignorance of East Asian history, if you don't think that China hasn't done every single one of those things in its stomping ground since the 1950s. Unlike the Soviets, Mao was one of the few leaders willing to both fight and 'win' a global nuclear war. China threw back a UN army in Korea with enormous casualties and has clashed militarily with almost every neighbour in the region (including India, Vietnam, and the Soviets). 

Taiwan does not have the unlimited right to choose its alliance partners because even the US is not prepared to be drawn by the unavoidable logic of a defence commitment there. It is a geopolitical trigger for WW3. 

The only difference between the two cases is that a rising China is likely to be much better equipped to deal with the consequences of its eventual move than a Russia in dire long-term economic decline. 

Quote

Every independent country has the right to ask to join. And the member countries have the right to decide on whether that is something they can accept as a risk and be prepared to defend militarily. To expect a Yes/No answer on such an important issue is just ridiculous.

How then does an applicant country find out if they're part of NATO, if 'Yes' and 'No' are not provided? Do they use interpretive dance instead? 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Wonder what WW4 will be like when it happens.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

11 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Insulate Britain have arrived to offer their support.

 

 

40 miles of convoy stopped by wifey with umbrella.