NorthernLights Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) Quote More now from a press conference by Polish President Andrzej Duda. He says it's "very likely" that a missile explosion in a Polish village late last night was caused by Ukrainian air defences. Ukraine was attempting to defend against a barrage of Russian strikes. It has denied it was to blame for the blast in the Polish village. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-63593855 Edited November 16, 2022 by NorthernLights 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 16 hours ago, deegee said: It’s a bit different from WW2 when we converted factories (already making industrial stuff like cars or machinery) to produce tanks and bullets. It’ll be a hard push converting “modern day workplaces” like call centres and the work force who prefer to take selfies of their skinny lattes than get their hands dirty making bombs. Or glassy making dirty bombs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 16 hours ago, Bairnardo said: 16 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Are Poland any good, they didn't do much last time out? You seen Russia m8 lol The Russians hammered Jerry last time out, and they annihilated Poland, so... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 4 hours ago, MP_MFC said: Hopefully it will lead to some of Zelenskyy’s rhetoric being dialled down at the very least. Understandably he’s trying to paint Russia in as bad a light as possible but in the immediate aftermath of this he was calling on article 5 etc and for all other nations to attack Russia. Yes this wouldn’t have happened had the Russians not launched their barrage but he needed to keep his powder dry with regards to this until the facts became known. Indeed. How can many Ukrainians be unaware that NATO going to war with Russia really wouldn't be a good thing for them, when they are already giving them a chasing as is. 4 hours ago, Newbornbairn said: The problem with Ukraine "compromising" is every time they recapture a town or city they find evidence of war crimes and atrocities. Russia is murdering, raping, forcibly deporting and stealing the children of Ukrainians. What Ukrainian leader could abandon his people to that? I agree. Sadly, there are only the least worst options to try and navigate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 24 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: The Russians hammered Jerry last time out, and they annihilated Poland, so... There's no easy wars these days, except maybe USA v Grenada, which was a bit one sided. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, dorlomin said: In case there is any doubt. I think some of the people who post on this thread are absolute bullshit merchants. I mostly ignore them, they fill in facts gleaned from watching youtube videos on "army stuff" with wild assumptions. When ever there is a crisis like last night, find credible people with decades of specialist knowledge and take your opinions from them, they will mostly say "wait till we have the facts". Let’s see, a cruise missile 500kg warhead would have made a crater at least twice the size of that one…the 5V55 has a 100kg warhead, which would be expected to make a smaller crater than that. You can argue all you want, and the position of the explosion is still a variable, but those were reasonable comments, sorry if you feel that’s army stuff. As for being ignored by you, thank you. The statements I referenced were from those experts reacting to the data given to them…it is easy to call for delay and such, but when statements are made from informed sources, there is nothing wrong with commenting on them. 4 hours ago, CambieBud said: You are quite right. The first casualty in every war is the truth. Too many people both here and elsewhere, take as gospel every utterance from Zelenskyy and The Ukrainian side. People deliberately choose to ignore the fact that The U.K. and our allies were responsible for ‘shock and awe’ in Iraq and hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties both there and Afghanistan. By contrast, Russian aggression in Ukraine has been much more measured. Is the fury and outrage because Ukrainians are white? I am NOT excusing this barbaric and illegal Russian aggression, but before accepting every piece of propaganda, remember that, understandably, it is in Ukraine’s interest to exaggerate or indeed make up stories designed to garner support from NATO. This, on the other hand, is unmitigated folderol. Edit: Measured, because the use of internationally prohibited PFM-1 mines (“petals”, especially dangerous to children) is measured, the fact that Romania and Turkey have had to defuse Russian mines in their waters is measured, the fact that Bulgaria has warned its citizens to watch out for Russian mines on the coast is measured, and shall we mention the tortured bodies found? Edited November 16, 2022 by TxRover 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 4 hours ago, CambieBud said: You are quite right. The first casualty in every war is the truth. Too many people both here and elsewhere, take as gospel every utterance from Zelenskyy and The Ukrainian side. People deliberately choose to ignore the fact that The U.K. and our allies were responsible for ‘shock and awe’ in Iraq and hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties both there and Afghanistan. By contrast, Russian aggression in Ukraine has been much more measured. Is the fury and outrage because Ukrainians are white? I am NOT excusing this barbaric and illegal Russian aggression, but before accepting every piece of propaganda, remember that, understandably, it is in Ukraine’s interest to exaggerate or indeed make up stories designed to garner support from NATO. What are you talking about? Who is ignoring this? I'm genuinely interested in the psychology of people like you who won't hear criticism of obviously horrendous regimes without saying 'BUT WHAT ABOOOUUT UUUS?'. The Iraq War drew the biggest protests Britain has seen in modern times, it was a hugely divisive issue in the country at the time, and it's one of the main reasons a once extremely popular Prime Minister is now widely reviled. The suggestion that British people and media (many of whom spoke out against it and some of whom presented evidence outing our own soldiers as wrong 'uns) just shrugged and accepted it is nonsense. Are you one of these people who says 'Well, HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO AMERICA?' when someone criticises the Qatar World Cup? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Russia is pouring missiles and drones etc onto Ukraine's civilians and the energy and water grids, etc, etc, and also pushing Russians into the front-line without weapons or protection. Many of these "Russians" appear to be from non-Russian ethnicity and distant parts of the country and beyond. Yet some find it tough to come to terms with this and try to deflect onto the past or to attract attention to themselves. A truly sad situation. At present it seems as though Nato are content to fight this War on Ukraine territory. If this is approach is seen through to an end where Ukraine regains all of the territory which it held, pre the take over of Donbas and Crimea, then this is going to leave Ukraine in a h.ll of a mess for years to come. Given Russia's track record going back 100 plus years of being run by, some might describe, maniacal types what is there to prevent a repeat of the current invasion in Ukraine and elsewhere in the future? Unless there is a co-ordinated plan to sort out the "problem that is Russia" we might as well teach the younger generations of the Nato areas military arts from now on so that they have some form of preparedness. There's no easy, short term, answers and a widely agreed strategy needs to be sorted out PDQ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Restore the borders, Ukraine joins NATO, Russians can go f**k themselves 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlandcowden Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 8 hours ago, CambieBud said: You are quite right. The first casualty in every war is the truth. Too many people both here and elsewhere, take as gospel every utterance from Zelenskyy and The Ukrainian side. People deliberately choose to ignore the fact that The U.K. and our allies were responsible for ‘shock and awe’ in Iraq and hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties both there and Afghanistan. By contrast, Russian aggression in Ukraine has been much more measured. Is the fury and outrage because Ukrainians are white? I am NOT excusing this barbaric and illegal Russian aggression, but before accepting every piece of propaganda, remember that, understandably, it is in Ukraine’s interest to exaggerate or indeed make up stories designed to garner support from NATO. measured?you for fucking real? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 17 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said: Restore the borders, Ukraine joins NATO, Russians can go f**k themselves A DMZ on both sides of the border would be more likely to succeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: A DMZ on both sides of the border would be more likely to succeed. Who is going to enforce a DMZ within Russian borders? Edited November 16, 2022 by ICTChris 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Who is going to enforce a DMZ within Russias borders? We could send round Lofty and the gang. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Interesting thread about the Russian state and Putin’s relationship with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 27 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Who is going to enforce a DMZ within Russian borders? Who is going to enforce a DMZ within Ukraine? The point of a DMZ is to reduce the perceived threat felt by either side from the other. If it gets to the point where it is violated then it's a clear sign of aggression. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 23 hours ago, Newbornbairn said: The important thing to remember about Russia killing people in Poland is it's America's fault, m'kaay. Given that it was Ukraine killing people in Poland you actually arrived at the correct answer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Just now, virginton said: Given that it was Ukraine killing people in Poland you actually arrived at the correct answer. Oh, it's slithered back. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said: Oh, it's slithered back. Sensing some frustration that your weirdo, planet-killing fantasy of NATO 'liberation' is off the table. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, virginton said: Sensing some frustration that your weirdo, planet-killing fantasy of NATO 'liberation' is off the table. Matched by the satisfaction that your fanboi fantasy of Russia crushing Ukraine and teaching the West a lesson has been shown to be a wet dream. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Thank goodness we didn't listen to Zelensky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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