Russian invasion of Ukraine

[TxRover]

7 hours ago, Thane of Cawdor said:

Hello again sailors, time for round 2?  I'm not a trained historian, so my question to better-informed posters is: are there any parallels between the disastrous Russian defeats in the Russo-Japanese war and Putin's misadventures in Ukraine. The former had strongly negative outcomes for that regime, is anything similar likely to bite Vlad on the arse?

Militarily, there are almost no parallels, as the Russians literally won no battles in the 1904-1905 conflict. Politically, the Czar continually doubled down to avoid a humiliating defeat/peace, until compelled to find peace after the final defeat of his Baltic fleet in the Battle of Tsushima. It could be argued that Putin’s early moves mirrored that actions of the Czar that drove the Japanese to conflict with Russia, and the Ukrainian counter has been similar to the battles in that conflict. If it continues, and the  newly mobilized formations are decisively defeated, then Putin could be compelled to seek a peace in a manner similar to that of the Czar…but it is unlikely that Ukraine can maintain the pressure as their lines extend and the Russian ones contract.

[TxRover]

4 hours ago, HalfCutNinja said:

 

Not Ukraine's ours. We have been arming Ukraine for years, this was the obvious endgame. He can't allow that. Would we allow that?

Look at it this way. Lets say Russia had spent the last eight years heavily arming the republic of Ireland after overthrowing it's pro British government in a coup and installing a pro Russian puppet government. What would we do about that? How would we react?

Would we allow Russia to station nuclear weapons in Ireland three minutes flight time from London? No we wouldn't, we would be doing exactly what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now.

None of this is laudable and there are no good guys here. But we caused this, we wanted it and we have expended a lot of time, money and energy to bring it about. We should be asking our leaders why rather than blaming big bad crazy Russia.

The obvious endgame would be deploying non-existent nuclear-tipped, short range, ballistic missiles? The first rule of nuclear warheads is security. With a significant Russian population, Ukraine would be a security nightmare to base warheads in. The U.S. had issues with the nuclear tipped Jupiter missiles in Turkey, and happily traded them away for the removal of the Cuban missiles. While there are still some 50 B-61 nuclear free-fall weapon in Turkey (Incirlik AFB), there has been serious concern about their safety and security. Other locations that have seen nukes were relatively secure and distant from ABM system locations in Germany, UK and Greece, but most have been withdrawn as missile technology matured and the use of SRBM’s became pointless. Ukrainian based SRBM’s would be vulnerable in both the boost and return phase, plus SRBM’s are significantly slower than ICBM’s, and therefore easier targets.

[Sweet Pete]

So, just to summarise the last few pages: there's such things as 'low radiation' nuclear weapons; Britain overthrew the legitimate Ukrainian government and installed Zelensky; Britain (or 'the West') have been arming Ukraine in a proxy war for years and are placing nukes inside Ukraine to threaten Russia, leaving Putin no choice but to invade Ukraine (are these nukes the 'low radiation' variety...?); Russia's new 300,000 recruits will definitely be better trained and equipped than the entire army they've burned through since February, because they are definitely going to overhaul their entire culture militarily between now and the deployment of the new forced troops.

Wow.

[LongTimeLurker]

Looks like Vlad is running out of friends...

 

 

[HalfCutNinja]

9 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Why would we risk putting nukes in Ukraine when we can launch them from subs in the Baltic or the Arctic? Same as Russia can do to us..

Because they're closer. This has been the battle for decades, to achieve first strike capability. Put them in Ukraine you've got that. No way could Russia allow that.

We shouldn't be angry at Russia for doing what pretty much every government In the world would have done in their position, we should be angry at our leaders for putting them in that position.

[HalfCutNinja]

4 hours ago, TxRover said:

The obvious endgame would be deploying non-existent nuclear-tipped, short range, ballistic missiles? The first rule of nuclear warheads is security. With a significant Russian population, Ukraine would be a security nightmare to base warheads in. The U.S. had issues with the nuclear tipped Jupiter missiles in Turkey, and happily traded them away for the removal of the Cuban missiles. While there are still some 50 B-61 nuclear free-fall weapon in Turkey (Incirlik AFB), there has been serious concern about their safety and security. Other locations that have seen nukes were relatively secure and distant from ABM system locations in Germany, UK and Greece, but most have been withdrawn as missile technology matured and the use of SRBM’s became pointless. Ukrainian based SRBM’s would be vulnerable in both the boost and return phase, plus SRBM’s are significantly slower than ICBM’s, and therefore easier targets.

I'm not an expert in nuclear weapons so will take your word for this. It changes nothing though, the military build up on their border couldn't be allowed to continue. We also had a dozen biolabs in Ukraine. Why? Why have we spent the last twenty years trying to collect Slavic DNA? Russia has, rightly, been complaining about this for decades. We have, quite openly, been trying to develop bioweapons that can target specific ethnicities for decades. 

Ukraine's border with Russia is 1200 miles long and stretches right into the heart of the most populated areas of Russia. And we're building biolabs along it while collecting Russian DNA.

Putin has behaved rationally and reasonably here. He's hardly a good person but he isn't in the wrong here. And btw most of the world supports him not us. We're just heavily propagandised in the West so we don't know that.

Russia has a legitimate and very serious national security concern in Ukraine. It's Putin's actual job to address that. 

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

We're just heavily propagandised in the West so we don't know that.

[falkirkthebigclub]

5 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

Why have we spent the last twenty years trying to collect Slavic DNA? Russia has, rightly, been complaining about this for decades. We have, quite openly, been trying to develop bioweapons that can target specific ethnicities for 

 

5 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

And we're building biolabs along it while collecting Russian DNA.

Get this c**t binned for spreading misinformation.

[Sweet Pete]

What we're witnessing here is called cannabis psychosis 

[Bairnardo]

Can only assume some posters are familiar with this utter fantasist tbh.

[Detournement]

The Pentagon admitted building military biolabs in Ukraine and doing studies on Ethnic Russians. 

America has previous for targetting Russia with bioweapons.

It's also a publicly stated American aim to make bioweapons that target specific ethnic groups. 

[welshbairn]

It's nice for the world's village idiots to have somewhere to get together.

 

[Todd_is_God]

14 minutes ago, Detournement said:

It's also a publicly stated American aim to make bioweapons that target specific ethnic groups. 

 

[Sweet Pete]

I definitely did the stupidity highlights post too early in the day. Redundant within ten minutes. Keep plumbing those depths, lads.

[ICTChris]

Lots of heads gones about the prisoner swap from Russian nationalist Telegram channels.

Considering the propaganda claims for years about neo-Nazis etc, to swap the Azov commanders who regime cheerleaders have called war criminals and called for execution, for Medvedchuk, an oligarch who is pals with Putin, must be pretty jarring. 

Here is Girkin on the swap.  Khodakovsky is a sepratist leader, former Ukrainian SBU officer who defected in 2014.

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by ICTChris

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, HalfCutNinja said:

 

Ukraine's border with Russia is 1200 miles long and stretches right into the heart of the most populated areas of Russia. And we're building biolabs along it

 

39 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The Pentagon admitted building military biolabs in Ukraine

 

Ex-Soviet Bioweapons Labs Are Fighting COVID-19. Moscow Doesn’t Like It. One of the greatest achievements of U.S. foreign policy has been targeted by a vicious disinformation campaign.

[Michael W]

2 hours ago, HalfCutNinja said:

I'm not an expert in nuclear weapons so will take your word for this. It changes nothing though, the military build up on their border couldn't be allowed to continue. We also had a dozen biolabs in Ukraine. Why? Why have we spent the last twenty years trying to collect Slavic DNA? Russia has, rightly, been complaining about this for decades. We have, quite openly, been trying to develop bioweapons that can target specific ethnicities for decades. 

Ukraine's border with Russia is 1200 miles long and stretches right into the heart of the most populated areas of Russia. And we're building biolabs along it while collecting Russian DNA.

Putin has behaved rationally and reasonably here. He's hardly a good person but he isn't in the wrong here. And btw most of the world supports him not us. We're just heavily propagandised in the West so we don't know that.

Russia has a legitimate and very serious national security concern in Ukraine. It's Putin's actual job to address that. 

 

[jagfox]

It's almost like Russia is unprepared for their mobilisation?

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

It's nice for the world's village idiots to have somewhere to get together.

 

The guy is a serious researcher who has published books on the Guatanamo prison camp and the US Bioweapons program during the Korea War. 

Linking to a crazy Neocon magazine isn't surprising but the issue with American explanations for these labs is why are they are run by the Pentagon and not NIH?

[dirty dingus]

Don't know about bio weapons but they've certainly got a new weapon and it's targeting a certain football food and beverage page. Always knew this site was a pro capitalist western backing sock puppet page. You just have to read the rabid establishment views on the politics forum