Russian invasion of Ukraine

[vikingTON]

2 minutes ago, bennett said:

If the Ukrainians are defending urban areas then they're obviously going to place forces there,

What, because urban areas are universally comprised of school, medical centre; medical centre, school aye? 

Have you ever been to a city before M8?  

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all Amnesty have done is given the Russians an excuse to continue targeting civilians. 

No, all Amnesty have done is to report violations of the humanitatian code of war. It has reported substantial violations on the Russian side; and it has also now reported verifiable breaches on the Ukrainian side. They do not cancel each other out. 

So what is your actual problem with a highly respected NGO doing its job? 

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Obviously I'm not a qualified clever person like V.kington. 

You're certainly not clever enough to dispute any of the factual arguments made by Amnesty chump. And you're not even clever enough to avoid making a complete fool of yourself on here. 

I'd stop digging if I were you. 

[bennett]

Aye they should just remove their forces and allow the Russians to take the areas uncontested. 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by bennett

[Newbornbairn]

3 minutes ago, bennett said:

Aye they should just remove their forces and allow the Russians to take the areas uncontested. 

 

 

Which is what VT, HB and the usual suspects have been saying from the start. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Human sheilds are good actually ?

[The Other Foot]

Can some of the Amnesty supporters please give examples of the schools in question, and whether or not they are even being used as schools at present? I’m honestly not denying the veracity of this report, but Amnesty have been wrong on MANY occasions and are not particularly well-liked within the NGO community (speaking as someone who has been within that community) 

[Sergeant Wilson]

25 minutes ago, Stringer Bell said:

Human sheilds are good actually ?

Ideally you want a big fat one.

[Newbornbairn]

2 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

You can't simultaneously have sympathy for the situation Ukrainse are in and also point out that their acts or omissions are putting people in harms way unnecessarily?

Ukraine aren't in a "can do no wrong" situation here. Using your army in a defensive effort doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever the f**k you want? Wer surely not suggesting that are we? Because even without knowing about the specifics of what was said, that's once again, the absolute Facebook Maw style flavour I am getting here.

Putting your weapons where it's difficult for the enemy to hit them without causing civilian casualties is pretty much standard practice when defending against an overwhelmingly powerful force. The Vietnamese did it, they do it in Gaza, they did it in Lebanon, they did it in Serbia, the Japanese did it. They do it because attacking a school or a hospital is seen as beyond the pale. To some anyway. When the Soviet Union disintegrated and their files were opened we learned that hospitals and red cross aid stations were to be singled out for attack by the Red Army.

 

As to what the Ukrainians are or aren't doing - they're the victims here. 

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, bennett said:

Aye they should just remove their forces and allow the Russians to take the areas uncontested. 

 

 

Did you actually read the Amnesty report?

The Ukrainian military forces being highlighted were not positioned on the front line but instead miles within the Ukrainian zone of control. There was therefore zero prospect of Russians suddenly waltzing through to 'take the areas uncontested'. There was however the distinct prospect of the Russian military using missiles to target enemy personnel behind the frontlines - just like the HIMARS strikes on personnel and infrastructure in the Russian zone of control. That's how a military conflict works.

The Ukrainian forces were therefore quite clearly putting civilian lives at heightened and completely unnecessary risk in their deployment strategy. And the Russians have done this too with their tactics - which the same report explicitly condemns. Why you think that you know better about this than a highly respected, expert NGO that has worked in hundreds of utterly brutal conflict zones is a mystery. But you just keep digging anyway. 

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, The Other Foot said:

Can some of the Amnesty supporters please give examples of the schools in question, and whether or not they are even being used as schools at present? I’m honestly not denying the veracity of this report, but Amnesty have been wrong on MANY occasions and are not particularly well-liked within the NGO community (speaking as someone who has been within that community) 

Just read the fucking report for yourself instead of demanding that others spoon-feed its contents to you as a desperate wagon-circling tactic. 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Newbornbairn said:

Putting your weapons where it's difficult for the enemy to hit them without causing civilian casualties is pretty much standard practice when defending against an overwhelmingly powerful force. The Vietnamese did it, they do it in Gaza, they did it in Lebanon, they did it in Serbia, the Japanese did it. They do it because attacking a school or a hospital is seen as beyond the pale. To some anyway. When the Soviet Union disintegrated and their files were opened we learned that hospitals and red cross aid stations were to be singled out for attack by the Red Army.

 

4 hours ago, Newbornbairn said:

Whataboutery on a P&B thread? Well I never. 

^^^ rinse and repeat 

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As to what the Ukrainians are or aren't doing - they're the victims here. 

Indeed they are. But in the specific cases highlighted by AI, the Ukrainian victims were victims of their own military's deployment and (almost certainly) their own government's political calculations. As well as Russian military aggression.

They were consulted by none of the above three agents that they would be used as human shields in a conflict zone. For some bizarre reason, a human rights NGO highlighting this is viewed a shocking breach instead of 'doing their job'. 

[Newbornbairn]

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

 the Ukrainian zone of control.

Or as the rest of the world knows it, "Ukraine".

[The Other Foot]

10 minutes ago, virginton said:

Just read the fucking report for yourself instead of demanding that others spoon-feed its contents to you as a desperate wagon-circling tactic. 

I did. None of the schools are occupied. So I’m asking if you have other evidence. I also asked it in a reasonable manner, but you decided to become arsey about it. So go and f**k yourself. 

[The Other Foot]

By the way, the reason AI is so disliked among the community of NGO workers is because their upper management are overpaid, narcissistic bullies, some of whom have been accused of racism, sexism and assault. File under the same bracket as Red Cross. 
 

Plenty of other wonderful NGOs to give your money to. 

[vikingTON]

18 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said:

Or as the rest of the world knows it, "Ukraine".

You might want to go back and check how the rest of the world actually responded to a regional European conflict and the West's current fixation with it. 

Edited August 6, 2022 by vikingTON

[The Other Foot]

Fuckin hell. For years I’ve thought @virginton was one of the alright posters on this site and now he’s only gone and went full Alex Jones 

[Lurkst]

Ol' Rog loves to go against the grain...

 

 

[Newbornbairn]

39 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

Ol' Rog loves to go against the grain...

That's the long and the short of it really. There's people who delight in being contrarian because they imagine taking an opposite position makes them smarter than everyone else. They don't believe it but they get off on the attention. 

[DiegoDiego]

There's people who delight in being contrarian because they imagine taking an opposite position makes them smarter than everyone else. They don't believe it but they get off on the attention. 

Sportsound thread for this pish.

[steve55]

On 06/08/2022 at 10:33, bennett said:

Aye they should just remove their forces and allow the Russians to take the areas uncontested. 

 

 

 The Areas you speak of are 95% Russian BTW

[DiegoDiego]

 The Areas you speak of are 95% Russian BTW

Not according to the last census.