Jump to content

Russian invasion of Ukraine


Sonam

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:
1 hour ago, Newbornbairn said:
Maybe someone should be trying to get the Russians to stop?

Any suggestions to that end?

Well, we could load the huge Ukrainian army up with modern heavy weapons that will kill Russians in massive numbers.

 

Or a witty gif. I'm easy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, virginton said:

The onus is currently on the chump Ukrainian president to change his country's braindead tactics, to make the Russian effort costly enough for them to stop and reconsider. That's how war works. 

How would withdrawal make the Russian effort more costly?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Newbornbairn said:

Well, we could load the huge Ukrainian army up with modern heavy weapons that will kill Russians in massive numbers.

 

Or a witty gif. I'm easy.

We aren't doing that?

 

Is the money for any expansion you think we should do unlimited?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said:

I think we should give what we can.

I think the UK government would contend that this is exactly what they are doing. Now we all know they lie and can't be trusted, but I don't think you are saying anything new here? 

Unless by give what we can, you actually mean give them everything and anything, from Typhoons to tanks to trident armed submarines? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

How would withdrawal make the Russian effort more costly?

1) You can form a more defendable position further west, rather than the moronic insistence that every shithole in Luhansk can be turned into the next Stalingrad (no. of successes so far with this = zero).

2) You can save your forces rather than take massive daily casualties in a completely mismatched artillery duel.

3) You can re-equip your preserved forces for a more balanced engagement in the autumn. 

Allowing the opponent to choose the battleground is an incredibly stupid move and yet this is what happens when Ukraine's leader favour nationalist rhetoric over strategic reality. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

Is the money for any expansion you think we should do unlimited?

Of course.

We should all support/demand the Tories shovel more and more money onto a bonfire, and then call them all sorts when the cost of living increases even more because of it.

That's how modern political optics works isn't it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure the figure is around £2.8 billion so far, we should double it immediately imo.  A small price to pay for an endless meat grinder in the Dobas to satiate my enormous war boner.
It's not just the war boners this time though. Its the endless, totally sans-context RUSSIA MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO WIN!!!! stuff.

That's all well and good if you have the appetite or the crushing advantage in military terms, to go and make that happen. But we are not willing, and might not be able collectively in the West without torching the planet, to actually stop them.

That leaves us with what we have... Helping Ukraine. But even that comes with constraints and limitations.

Our method of helping Ukraine has a gaping hole in its flank that is, that Ukraine itself must use the aid effectively. It still has to win the fight by itself but with a bit of sanctioned doping.

We can't sit here and pontificate about doing more/what Ukraine can/can't settle for in negotiation etc etc unless we are willing to escalate what we do. This is why I am asking NBB. If folk want this escalated to ensure a Ukranian win, just say so. Then we can all squabble about whether UK troops on the ground/the risk of massive escalation is worth it.

Coming on here and criticising folk for floating the idea of the possible requirement for Ukranian concessions, or an outcome that doesnt end with Russia scurrying off as Ukraine triumphantly March into Crimea, whilst not actually acknowledging that Russia are in a school bully, we'll take unless someone can stop us situation is just...... Well I really hate the term virtue signalling, but theres a lot of it happening.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, virginton said:

It will certainly be interesting to see how public opinion looks if the 11% inflation forecast kicks in by October and people start having to turn on the heating every night.

Simple - blame to Tories for not giving more money away. NS will also join in with this, further lighting the fire.

That their simultaneous desire to ensure Ukraine are able to continue slowly losing a war is a massive cause of everything being more expensive will be ignored. Because we must do something.

It could not be more obvious that no-one in the West considered that their sanctions would not cause Russia to back off within weeks, and now, 4 months down the line, they have no option but to continue to cause their own citizens to suffer more and more the economic consequences of a war they have no business being involved in.

The irony being, of course, that if Ukraine (or literally anyone else bar Russia) had decided they were invading the likes of Afghanistan for reasons known only to them absolutely no-one would give any fucks at all.

Edited by Todd_is_God
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The shape of the world order over the next few decades will be determined by what the outcome is in Ukraine. People need to come to terms with the fact that we have moved into a new era and there's no going back to what we were used to pre-Feb 24. WWIII is being fought by proxy right now on NATO's behalf by the Ukrainians.

The Russians appear to have genuinely believed they could win in 3 days with their initial blitzkrieg. Instead they have lost 30-40% of their armed forces in slightly over 100 with the Ukrainian side having significantly more scope for future resupply courtesy of the sanctions that were imposed by western nations. Vlad can probably only keep what he is doing right now going for a few more months. After that things will get interesting...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, virginton said:

It will certainly be interesting to see how public opinion looks if the 11% inflation forecast kicks in by October and people start having to turn on the heating every night.

Starvation will hit Africa in particular a lot harder and earlier than our heating bills, that said it might be a bit easier to unblock the black sea than solve the reliance on gas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, 101 said:

Starvation will hit Africa in particular a lot harder and earlier than our heating bills...

Wheat isn't the main staple in most of sub-Saharan Africa so think that's over-stating things. It's North Africa and the Middle East that tend to be most reliant on Ukrainian and Russian wheat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

It's not just the war boners this time though. Its the endless, totally sans-context RUSSIA MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO WIN!!!! stuff.

That's all well and good if you have the appetite or the crushing advantage in military terms, to go and make that happen. But we are not willing, and might not be able collectively in the West without torching the planet, to actually stop them.

That leaves us with what we have... Helping Ukraine. But even that comes with constraints and limitations.

Our method of helping Ukraine has a gaping hole in its flank that is, that Ukraine itself must use the aid effectively. It still has to win the fight by itself but with a bit of sanctioned doping.

We can't sit here and pontificate about doing more/what Ukraine can/can't settle for in negotiation etc etc unless we are willing to escalate what we do. This is why I am asking NBB. If folk want this escalated to ensure a Ukranian win, just say so. Then we can all squabble about whether UK troops on the ground/the risk of massive escalation is worth it.

Coming on here and criticising folk for floating the idea of the possible requirement for Ukranian concessions, or an outcome that doesnt end with Russia scurrying off as Ukraine triumphantly March into Crimea, whilst not actually acknowledging that Russia are in a school bully, we'll take unless someone can stop us situation is just...... Well I really hate the term virtue signalling, but theres a lot of it happening.

Firstly - Ukraine isn't losing 1000 troops a day, that's just HB using Russian propaganda figures. Multiple sources put it at around 200 casualties a day, a fair proportion of whom will be lightly wounded and back fighting very quickly. Given the utter contempt shown on this site for soldiers over the years, it's a tad hypocritical for the same folk to be clutching their pearls in mock horror. 

 

The parallels with the 1930s are stark. Our fearless left wing freedom fighters (keyboard division) have been ranting about fascists and dictators for years, but here we have a bona fide totalitarian dictatorship invading another country for no other reason than conquest and to subjugate a neighbour - using the same murderous tactics used in Chechnya and Syria. There's plenty of evidence of war crimes, mass murder, widespread rape and civilians being decanted to camps in Russia. If history teaches us anything it's that regimes like this don't stop of their own volition. Look at Israel. 

Ukraine is holding the Russians in the east - their gains really are pitiful and they can only gain a city by destroying it. 

Tumblr Gallery Pics (737379)

Their air force is largely nullified by Manpads, their navy now keeps 100km off the coast of Ukraine after the Moskva was sunk, their tanks are largely smashed and hugely vulnerable to Western anti-tank missiles, all they have left are troops and artillery. Their army is built around artillery but drones and better Western equipment will nullify that.  Ukraine is re-arming but Russia can't due to sanctions. 

 

Ukraine can win this, we can help them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said:

Firstly - Ukraine isn't losing 1000 troops a day, that's just HB using Russian propaganda figures. Multiple sources put it at around 200 casualties a day, a fair proportion of whom will be lightly wounded and back fighting very quickly. Given the utter contempt shown on this site for soldiers over the years, it's a tad hypocritical for the same folk to be clutching their pearls in mock horror. 

 

The parallels with the 1930s are stark. Our fearless left wing freedom fighters (keyboard division) have been ranting about fascists and dictators for years, but here we have a bona fide totalitarian dictatorship invading another country for no other reason than conquest and to subjugate a neighbour - using the same murderous tactics used in Chechnya and Syria. There's plenty of evidence of war crimes, mass murder, widespread rape and civilians being decanted to camps in Russia. If history teaches us anything it's that regimes like this don't stop of their own volition. Look at Israel. 

Ukraine is holding the Russians in the east - their gains really are pitiful and they can only gain a city by destroying it. 

Tumblr Gallery Pics (737379)

Their air force is largely nullified by Manpads, their navy now keeps 100km off the coast of Ukraine after the Moskva was sunk, their tanks are largely smashed and hugely vulnerable to Western anti-tank missiles, all they have left are troops and artillery. Their army is built around artillery but drones and better Western equipment will nullify that.  Ukraine is re-arming but Russia can't due to sanctions. 

 

Ukraine can win this, we can help them. 

Yeah.... But we already are helping them. So what more were you suggesting when you said "maybe someone should stop Russia"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...