Russian invasion of Ukraine

[jagfox]

1 minute ago, Newbornbairn said:

That was something Genghis Khan used to do, he'd force tribes to fight against each other - then slaughter the survivors.

British Empire too but don't tell you know who....

[DiegoDiego]

Detournement is basically that one guy in everyone's hall during first year of uni.

In my case I had to get that guy sectioned (not as easy or fun as they made out on Peepshow) and the bomb squad were called in.

[gkneil]

Always good, for those of us who have done previously, to be reminded of why we chose to improve our forum experience.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

5 hours ago, Detournement said:

I think the 8 year war in Donbass, persecution of Russian speakers, American funded military biolabs, the increasingly Nazi character of the Ukranian state, the refusal to implement the Minsk agreements and the lack of progress in security negotiations justify the war. 

It's similar to Vietnam invading Cambodia in 1978. 

 

[Dan Steele]

5 hours ago, Detournement said:

I think the 8 year war in Donbass, persecution of Russian speakers, American funded military biolabs, the increasingly Nazi character of the Ukranian state, the refusal to implement the Minsk agreements and the lack of progress in security negotiations justify the war. 

It's similar to Vietnam invading Cambodia in 1978. 

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

[Detournement]

14 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

None of those factors are conspiracy theories. 

[Newbornbairn]

No, they got laughed out of conspiracy club.

[Gordon EF]

They're conspiracy facts.

[welshbairn]

They're as factual as the 2 GRU agents travelling to Salisbury to check out the 123 meter high cathedral spire and all the multiple Kremlin explanations for how the Malaysian passenger jet was shot down.

[Newbornbairn]

8 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

They're as factual as the 2 GRU agents travelling to Salisbury to check out the 123 meter high cathedral spire and all the multiple Kremlin explanations for how the Malaysian passenger jet was shot down.

But it's the same disinformation technique.

 

"A" happens because of "B".

It's obvious because all the evidence shows it was "B"

But the Putin bots bring in alternative theories saying it could have been "C" or "D" or "E".

People then respond showing how C isn't possible.

People then respond showing how D isn't possible.

People then respond showing how E isn't possible.

So the Putin bots persist in saying C is possible because of F and D is possible because of G and E is possible because of H.

People then respond about C and D and E and F and G and H

And someone calls the bot an arsehole and someone else says the bot has a point and isn't it possible that D or E or F or G could happen because Britain/America/NATO/Slavery/Racism/Price of Aeros in Calcutta.

 

And everyone has forgotten that A happened because of B. 

[Theroadlesstravelled]

6 hours ago, Detournement said:

There are RAF staff working at the in Saudi Arabia servicing the planes that bomb Yemen. 

1300 British troops are fighting illegally in Iraq and Syria as part of Operation Shader.

 

The Houthis are allies of Russia so it makes sense you don't want them bombed.

 

[welshbairn]

58 minutes ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

 

The Houthis are allies of Russia so it makes sense you don't want them bombed.

 

He's very picky, it's fine when Russia is bombing Aleppo or Mariupol but god forgive them if the Brits or Yanks bomb IS. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by welshbairn

[beefybake]

19 hours ago, Clockwork said:

You think that the wrongful actions of the U.K. government in Iraq and Afghanistan or rotten apples within the British Army in Kenya, somehow exonerate the crimes of Putin’s forces in Ukraine? Wow.

Funny how the 'rotten apples' things always appears when a government, or police etc want to distance themselves...

Long ago, the mid 70's,  I worked at an RAF base. My colleagues were various.... civilians, senior NCO's, officers through to mid rank, flight lieutenants.

One day, in conversation with a flight lieutenant, then in his 40's, he described working in the Colonial Service in Kenya in the 50's. He described a charge sheet against a detained individual.  It comprised one A4 page, from the initial detention. The charge was that the person had one bullet in his possesion. The man was adjudged to be guilty. The sheet finished, that one page, with an officer signing the case off after the execution had been carried out. 

 

Rotten apples ?  Aye, right.  This was policy.

Edited April 20, 2022 by beefybake

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I think the 8 year war in Donbass, persecution of Russian speakers, American funded military biolabs, the increasingly Nazi character of the Ukranian state, the refusal to implement the Minsk agreements and the lack of progress in security negotiations justify the war. 
It's similar to Vietnam invading Cambodia in 1978. 

You really are a dribbling puddle-drinker.

[welshbairn]

21 minutes ago, beefybake said:

Funny how the 'rotten apples' things always appears when a government, or police etc want to distance themselves...

Long ago, the mid 70's,  I worked at an RAF base. My colleagues were various.... civilians, senior NCO's, officers through to mid rank, flight lieutenants.

One day, in conversation with a flight lieutenant, then in his 40's, he described working in the Colonial Service in Kenya in the 50's. He described a charge sheet against a detained individual.  It comprised one A4 page, from the initial detention. The charge was that the person had one bullet in his possesion. The man was adjudged to be guilty. The sheet finished, that one page, with an officer signing the case off after the execution had been carried out. 

 

Rotten apples ?  Aye, right.  This was policy.

Quite, a badly chosen phrase. The point he was making was valid though, any attempt to justify what Putin is doing today in Ukraine by what Britain did in Kenya 70 years ago is just wrong and a bit weird. Both are evil, unjustifiable and unforgivable, one does not excuse the other.

[falkirkthebigclub]

3 hours ago, Newbornbairn said:

But it's the same disinformation technique.

 

"A" happens because of "B".

It's obvious because all the evidence shows it was "B"

But the Putin bots bring in alternative theories saying it could have been "C" or "D" or "E".

People then respond showing how C isn't possible.

People then respond showing how D isn't possible.

People then respond showing how E isn't possible.

So the Putin bots persist in saying C is possible because of F and D is possible because of G and E is possible because of H.

People then respond about C and D and E and F and G and H

And someone calls the bot an arsehole and someone else says the bot has a point and isn't it possible that D or E or F or G could happen because Britain/America/NATO/Slavery/Racism/Price of Aeros in Calcutta.

 

And everyone has forgotten that A happened because of B. 

 

[beefybake]

57 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Quite, a badly chosen phrase. The point he was making was valid though, any attempt to justify what Putin is doing today in Ukraine by what Britain did in Kenya 70 years ago is just wrong and a bit weird. Both are evil, unjustifiable and unforgivable, one does not excuse the other.

Agreed, totally.   I do, though, consider it important to call out attempts, or apparent attempts, whether through ignorance or design, to gloss over the sundry behaviours of Britain.  You hardly need to search too far on the internet to find the stories of massacres carried out by the British Army in Malaya in the 1950's.

Little reference, is said about the fact that the officer/commanding officer ranks of outfits like 3 Para murdering 13 innocent civilians in Ireland in 1972...., were people who'd cut their killing teeth in Malaya years before.  Nor much reference to the fact that for 10+ years before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the place had been sanctioned and bombed near enough back to the Stone Age, before the 'weapons of mass destuction' thing was fabricated. 

Putin is absolutely the villain of this piece.

But let's not sit back and bask in some kind of  "We don't do that kind of thing...." crap.

Because, yes we do.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by beefybake

[Albus Bulbasaur]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Quite, a badly chosen phrase. The point he was making was valid though, any attempt to justify what Putin is doing today in Ukraine by what Britain did in Kenya 70 years ago is just wrong and a bit weird. Both are evil, unjustifiable and unforgivable, one does not excuse the other.

This is true. 

Reminds me of the type of person that can't call out Nicola Sturgeon and Boris Johnson at the same time for their covid failures. 

The world would be a much better place if we could call out wrong doings even if they're from our perceived "side". 

You can definitely think previous British War crimes are abhorrent and detestable but that shouldn't stop you from aiming valid criticism at Putin or what Russia is doing right now. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Albus Bulbasaur

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I think the 8 year war in Donbass, persecution of Russian speakers, American funded military biolabs, the increasingly Nazi character of the Ukranian state, the refusal to implement the Minsk agreements and the lack of progress in security negotiations justify the war. 
It's similar to Vietnam invading Cambodia in 1978. 

What are you going to do next for attention? Genuinely interested as the above is fucking mental.