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Russian invasion of Ukraine


Sonam

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There's a ton of good things now compared to any other period of history.
If people want to focus purely on the negatives than that's up to them I suppose.
It's not for me though.

I think the phrase used was that the planet is in better shape now for our kids than the 60's. It really isn't.
The world we live in might be but the planet was in far better nick 60 years ago.
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It's looking more like the 'best' that Ukraine will be able to get out of this, diplomatically, is to have their country split pretty much in half, and presumably a Russian puppet as PM (can't see them allowing Zelensky to continue). Russians take the eastern area and have troops stationed there. western section is 'still' Ukraine.

Of course there will be ongoing guerrilla attacks on the Russians for some time to come in that scenario, but by then it will have slipped to pages 14 and 15 of tabloids here.

We would then just have to hope that Putin 'stops' at eastern Ukraine, although he will naturally have been emboldened. Kicking the can down the road for hsi next incursion, wherever that may be.

Meantime, Europe will have to start moving to build alternative supplies of energy now, though that will take years....how long would it take everyone to run an electric car (15 years?)

Edited by Jedi
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14 minutes ago, Jedi said:

We would then just have to hope that Putin 'stops' at eastern Ukraine.

If you believe Russia are daft enough to tell Belarus their exact plans, and Belarus are daft enough to allow it to become public, then Moldova is next in line once Ukraine is broken apart.

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10 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

There has probably never been less war/conflict globally than the present day, speaking like over the centuries. Maybe in that regard the world is better than ever.

That's not true. There's actually more conflicts in the last year's for which data has been properly collected, although deaths in battle has fallen significantly per conflict and overall. So less lads with AKs shooting each other, more mass displacement of people and constant terror.

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I would agree with you about the environment in general but the poster who made that comment is talking above about house prices, foodbanks and apparently limited opportunities (whatever that last bit means) so I think the point was broader than what you're saying.
The poster shouldn't have said the planet is in better shape now, it really isn't.

Undoubtedly this is a far better time to be alive as a human, particularly in the developed world, with obvious exceptions.

I suspect the times may be a changing though. We just cannot keep doing the same to the planet or this current conflict will be looked upon as a skirmish.
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23 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

I speculated yesterday on the seemingly reckless baws-oot approach of Zelensky. I like the idea of it. 

But then I generally champion anyone who is prepared to challenge the status quo and do it their way. And I am not any sort of world leader (thank f**k).  

Unfortunately the difficulty Ukraine faces is that now they have set themselves down the path of resistance, the more they resist the usual process of deferring to inevitable strength, the heavier the bombardment will become and then the less optimal (?) the inevitable final outcome becomes. 

And then they’ve also armed a guerilla urban army to take potshots at the Russians for as long as they can source munitions. The Russian soldiers/targets will keep being drafted in but the more the Ukrainian mobsters fight you can guarantee the stronger the response. 

That less optimal outcome I mentioned? More deaths all round. And likely also increased territorial demands/infrastructure destruction from the Russians so they can ‘guarantee their people’s safety’. 
 

ETA - those thermobaric bombs scare the fuück out of me. 

This is the thing, once the decision was made to invade, the optimal outcome for minimising loss of life was a swift Russian victory/Ukrainian capitulation. Sounds terrible, but it's the reality of the situation.

Of course the resistance is brave and understandable, but if you're at the stage of emptying prisons, getting grannies to make molotov cocktails and inviting every wingnut on the planet to join your foreign legion, then maybe it's time to sit down and have a think about the best way to get out of this.

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World may well be better overall, but Putin has just turned the clock back...we are going to be living with the effects of this for some time to come.

Its going to push technological change, with a ramping up of green energy sources across Europe and the UK (heat pumps replacing gas fired boilers, electric cars, more nuclear power, renewable energy, carbon capture and storage etc). Just a few months on from the Cop summit, these things are now priorities, not just to tackle climate change but to reverse dependence on Russian supplies in the longer term.

Its going to force a major rethink of attitudes to refugees and immigration, with a massive influx of Ukrainians across Europe...from the rhetoric of Breixit and pulling up the drawbridge to the necessity now of doing something.

Its going to seriously undermine Scottish independence...why break away from a larger neighbour and its armed forces when the world has just become a much more dangerous place? Defence will now be the Yes/No battleground.

Its going to force a major rethink of attitudes to the EU...the UK has ended up in the worst possible time to leave an organisation which has now assumed far more importance, economically and militarily. A push to rejoin? as our 'natural' allies are now surely the EU countries.

A serious spotlight will need to be shone on where parties (ie the Tories) get their (oligarch driven) funding from. and how the city of London, in particular disinvests from such sources

There is going to be economic pain in the form of energy price hikes on top of what was coming anyway.

And its going to see living with more fear of ongoing, escalating conflicts in Europe, not something we have had for a very long time.

 

 

Edited by Jedi
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15 minutes ago, Zen Archer (Raconteur) said:

 

 

I know this is seen as some form of "win", but is it not a bit worrying they can hack into superpowers to this degree?

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1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I know this is seen as some form of "win", but is it not a bit worrying they can hack into superpowers to this degree?

Maybe some disgruntled Russians are making it easier for them?

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1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I know this is seen as some form of "win", but is it not a bit worrying they can hack into superpowers to this degree?

I DM'd them, apparently if you keep quiet they are getting me free Prime and Discovery+

I'll give you the pass code as soon as I get it live.

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