Luddite Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: Considering most people “choose” their clubs before putting on a school uniform for the first time, usually under the influence of parents/grandparents and with general naivety towards what success really looks like then I’d say the point is completely flawed and banded about by those who seem to think they have some sort of moral high ground for supporting their local/provincial team without understanding the choice is generally made for us. By the time kids understand the landscape of Scottish football they already have an infinity/affection for the team they have been brought up to follow and that’s hard to break. So no it’s not important at all and quite frankly utter shite. Its also strange behaviour quoting yourself and agreeing with your own point, wtf is that all about? Pretty fucking weak minded if as an adult you can’t break free from decisions your parents made for you as a small child. If Celtic is genuinely your local club, fair play, if it isn’t, how hard is it to start supporting your local club? The only difficult part is cutting ties to the branding they have mindfucked you with. Edited January 30, 2022 by Luddite Spelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Luddite said: First of all I chose the name Luddite cos I’m fucking clueless with technology. Apologies if my not understanding the quoting mechanism has offended you, I meant to quote you. Secondly, under the influence of my Shettleston-born dad I wholeheartedly supported Celtic from childhood through the 80s to Late 2000s . Then I broke it. Lastly, how important is it? If you merely see football as product for consumption f created by Rupert Murdoch and his ilk in the early 90s then yeah, it’s not important. But if you see it as possibly the last avenue left where a sense of tradition and community and voice for the lower classes still exists, despite outside forces trying to sanitize and b*****dize it, then it’s very fucking important. Firstly you don’t offend me and secondly I said most …not all there are exceptions like yourself however I do however ask whether it was the right decision as judging by your general demeanour you come across as a bit bitter and resentful. I’m an 80’s child so before Sky however I am thankful for Murdochs creation since it does in fact keep a roof over my head these days however that’s a separate thing entirely. My first experiences of going to the football as a Celtic fan were during the Rangers 9iar era in fact the first season I was going with my pals was ironically the season we almost went bust and I was nowt but a daft wee 14 year old and I fucking loved it…..every second of it. We were winning f**k all, signing the likes of Carl Muggleton and Wayne Biggins but it mattered not one iota. If you have an issue with outside forces trying to sanitise and b*****dise it then fair enough but your average fan and I include myself in this and the vast majority of my Celtic and Rangers supporting friends just want to go to the football, enjoy watching our team hopefully win and just escape the pressures of life for a couple of hours. These wee fitba facists that want to call you a plastic, glory hunter or that you shouldn’t be supporting x,y or z cause you are from here, there or somewhere else are amusing, they see everything in black and white affirmed to me by your last comment. There are many avenues available to keep senses of tradition, community alive and be a voice for the lower class communities. How do I know? Well I was brought up in such a community where electricity pylons were our climbing frames and still volunteer my time in such communities to teach my other passion to kids who may not have had the opportunity otherwise. But to see those opportunities you have to get off the high ground you are shouting from Edited January 30, 2022 by Jinky67 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Luddite said: Pretty fucking weak minded if as an adult you can’t break free from decisions your parents made for you as a small child. If Celtic is genuinely your local club, fair play, if it isn’t, how hard is it to start supporting your local club? The only difficult part is cutting ties to the branding they have mindfucked you with. Mate I’m a ex-bootneck, in the RM for 12 years and I’ve seen the very worst of humanity in that time. Trust me you have no clue as to how my mind works or what constitutes as difficult. We shouldn’t assume we know people, their beliefs, values or mindset just because of the team we support easier said than done sometimes I will agree considering I too made an assumption about you I hope you are wearing a hard hat up there though Edited January 30, 2022 by Jinky67 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Brees Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Jinky67 said: Considering most people “choose” their clubs before putting on a school uniform for the first time, usually under the influence of parents/grandparents and with general naivety towards what success really looks like then I’d say the point is completely flawed and banded about by those who seem to think they have some sort of moral high ground for supporting their local/provincial team without understanding the choice is generally made for us. By the time kids understand the landscape of Scottish football they already have an infinity/affection for the team they have been brought up to follow and that’s hard to break. So no it’s not important at all and quite frankly utter shite. Its also strange behaviour quoting yourself and agreeing with your own point, wtf is that all about? Are you not meant to follow your local team going by diddy logic? There’s just no pleasing some folks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, Drew Brees said: Are you not meant to follow your local team going by diddy logic? There’s just no pleasing some folks. I did pick up on the irony however didn’t want to assume he was born or brought up in Shettleston like his dad however if he was or is indeed still local? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 52 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: These wee fitba facists Listen, if the face fits... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddite Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) Bitter and resentful? About the changes that have been foisted upon us since the 80s getting us to where we are now? Yes, I am. And I think most people should be too if they’re paying attention. Was it the right decision? I’d rather be pissed about it and acknowledge what it is than blissfully ignore it just so I can continue adopting “Celtic fan” as part of my personality. That being said, I don’t go through my entire day ranting about it, just as most people’s online social media activity isn’t representative of their day-to-day demeanor. I appreciate your concern for my well-being though Like you, I lived through Rangers dominance, Celtic winning nothing. Buying shite players while Murray broke the bank desperately trying to emulate Jock Stein’s achievements. I understand football is a pastime, an escape. And if thats all it is to you….fine , I don’t give a shit. But this is a public forum to express our views about football and i’m expressing mine, and to me football is much more than that. Call me a fascist? If it pleases you do that, fine. It IS black and white to me. Football is different from every other “product” on the marketplace. Murdoch (as shorthand) wants to sell us loyalty to a brand/club the same way people buy into being a Marvel fan, a WWE fan, a Star Wars fan, but it is wholly different. I honestly don’t see where these avenues of tradition and community are in this world now, but if you have that I sincerely envy you and applaud your efforts in investing in that. Your closing comment about “moral high ground” is lazy, ad hominem and doesn’t refute anything I’ve said. Edited January 30, 2022 by Luddite 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddite Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 55 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: Mate I’m a ex-bootneck, in the RM for 12 years and I’ve seen the very worst of humanity in that time. Trust me you have no clue as to how my mind works or what constitutes as difficult. We shouldn’t assume we know people, their beliefs, values or mindset just because of the team we support easier said than done sometimes I will agree considering I too made an assumption about you I hope you are wearing a hard hat up there though I didn’t call any particular person weak minded, I pushed back, generally, against your general argument that because our parents guide us towards loyalty to a sports team, we can’t review that decision as adults and look at the bigger picture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddite Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 33 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: I did pick up on the irony however didn’t want to assume he was born or brought up in Shettleston like his dad however if he was or is indeed still local? Nope. My dads local team is Celtic. Mine is not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Luddite said: Bitter and resentful? About the changes that have been foisted upon us since the 80s getting us to where we are now? Yes, I am. And I think most people should be too if they’re paying attention. Was it the right decision? I’d rather be pissed about it and acknowledge what it is than blissfully ignore it just so I can continue adopting “Celtic fan” as part of my personality. That being said, I don’t go through my entire day ranting about it, just as most people’s online social media activity isn’t representative of their day-to-day demeanor. I appreciate your concern for my well-being though Like you, I lived through Rangers dominance, Celtic winning nothing. Buying shite players while Murray broke the bank desperately trying to emulate Jock Stein’s achievements. I understand football is a pastime, an escape. And if thats all it is to you….fine , I don’t give a shit. But this is a public forum to express our views about football and i’m expressing mine, and to me football is much more than that. Call me a fascist? If it pleases you do that, fine. It IS black and white to me. Football is different from every other “product” on the marketplace. Murdoch (as shorthand) wants to sell us loyalty to a brand/club the same way people but into being a Marvel fan, a WWE fan, a Star Wars fan, but it is wholly different. I honestly don’t see where these avenues of tradition and community are in this world now, but if you have that I sincerely envy you and applaud your efforts in investing in that. Your closing comment about “moral high ground” is lazy, ad hominem and doesn’t refute anything I’ve said. Spot on, particularly with regard to that opening paragraph. Never apologise for being bitter and resentful over what football has become. However, he didn't call you a fascist - that's an outrageous slur. Apparently, you're a facist. Maybe that's worse -, who knows? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintowellfan Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jinky67 said: Considering most people “choose” their clubs before putting on a school uniform for the first time, usually under the influence of parents/grandparents and with general naivety towards what success really looks like then I’d say the point is completely flawed and banded about by those who seem to think they have some sort of moral high ground for supporting their local/provincial team without understanding the choice is generally made for us. By the time kids understand the landscape of Scottish football they already have an infinity/affection for the team they have been brought up to follow and that’s hard to break. So no it’s not important at all and quite frankly utter shite. Its also strange behaviour quoting yourself and agreeing with your own point, wtf is that all about? Considering most people “choose” their clubs before putting on a school uniform for the first time, usually under the influence of parents/grandparents. Shame on them then. Brainwashing your own children/grandchildren, absolutely nonsense. Let your children grow and develop in their own way, don't saddle them with this tribal nonsense. Edit. Forget to mention the elephant in the room in Scotland. Tim parent has to be a Tim fan. *** parent has to be a *** fan. I totally dispair. I am so happy and glad that i support my local team. Edit again. So okay to say Tim, bit not ***! What a very weird site this is! Edited January 30, 2022 by tintowellfan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddite Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Luddite said: Pretty fucking weak minded if as an adult you can’t break free from decisions your parents made for you as a small child. If Celtic is genuinely your local club, fair play, if it isn’t, how hard is it to start supporting your local club? The only difficult part is cutting ties to the branding they have mindfucked you with. You know what mate, on re-reading that it does come across as a personal attack on you. For that I apologise. I really am trying to discuss in general terms here. Caught up in temporary internet-argument mode I guess. Namaste Edited January 30, 2022 by Luddite Spelling 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddite Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, tintowellfan said: Considering most people “choose” their clubs before putting on a school uniform for the first time, usually under the influence of parents/grandparents. Shame on them then. Brainwashing your own children/grandchildren, absolutely nonsense. Let your children grow and develop in their own way, don't saddle them with this tribal nonsense. Especially if it also means adopting certain views that expand further than the football pitch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Luddite said: You know what mate, on re-reading that it does come across as a personal attack on you. For that I apologise. I really am trying to discuss in general terms here. Caught up in temporary internet-argument mode so guess. Namaste Your cool mate, there is no need for apologies. It's an internet forum and you are expressing an opinion. Edited January 30, 2022 by Jinky67 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddite Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, tintowellfan said: Considering most people “choose” their clubs before putting on a school uniform for the first time, usually under the influence of parents/grandparents. Shame on them then. Brainwashing your own children/grandchildren, absolutely nonsense. Let your children grow and develop in their own way, don't saddle them with this tribal nonsense. Although if it’s about the local community, I’m okay with it. Yes, you could argue that comes across a bit fascisty, but it’s just my opinion that I keep harping on about community ties and shit. I don’t have any power to enact laws or anything, just expressing my opinion on a football forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Brees Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 I’m lost here, should I change team now or what?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintowellfan Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Drew Brees said: I’m lost here, should I change team now or what?? Yep. Just do not support a team with so much horrible baggage, just like your horrible cousin twats in Govan. Edited January 30, 2022 by tintowellfan Because these bigots are just so bigotted they do not get it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, tintowellfan said: Considering most people “choose” their clubs before putting on a school uniform for the first time, usually under the influence of parents/grandparents. Shame on them then. Brainwashing your own children/grandchildren, absolutely nonsense. Let your children grow and develop in their own way, don't saddle them with this tribal nonsense. Parents influence most things kids do either by design or accident. Do we let our kids grow and develop their own sense of morality, values and ethics or do you think that is something we should try influence? Is that too brainwashing? Choosing what school they went to? I mean where does this begin and where does it end? I have never ever told my kids who to support of even what sports to enjoy...ever. Never bought any of them a football top until i was asked for one or took them to a game until i was asked to by them. But i'm also not naive enough to think that them growing up watching me go to the football, having a good time, going mental watching the tv when a goal went in or equally as annoyed when we lost one doesn't have an in-direct influence on them......as it did with me most likely. What it certainly isn't is brainwashing, my kids are empowered to be who they want to be in whatever area they want to be so long as they respect themselves and those around them but ignoring the in-direct influences parents have is just silly Edited January 30, 2022 by Jinky67 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddite Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Drew Brees said: I’m lost here, should I change team now or what?? Depends what you want to get from it. If it’s not your local team and you just like buying a product from a nice big brand that makes you feel successful by association I vote yes, change your team. If it’s already your local team and they just happen to be a big successful club then, no, but just don’t get sucked in to their bullshit. Be aware that they don’t give a f**k about you, you are a consumer of their product. If your local team is a diddy club, congratulations, you get to be part of something so small and insignificant that , for the time being, Murdoch (shorthand) has no interest in it and can retain some level of genuine community spirit. Yes, I know my answer is patronizing as f**k, but you asked the question patronizingly. (FYI Patronizing means when you talk down to someone condescendingly) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddite Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: Parents influence most things kids do either by design or accident. Do we let our kids grow and develop their own sense of morality, values and ethics or do you think that is something we should try influence? Is that too brainwashing? Choosing what school they went to? I mean where does this begin and where does it end? I have never ever told my kids who to support of even what sports to enjoy...ever. Never bought any of them a football top until i was asked for one or took them to a game until i was asked to by them. But i'm also not naive enough to think that them growing up watching me go to the football, having a good time, going mental watching the tv when a goal went in or equally as annoyed when we lost one doesn't have an in-direct influence on them......as it did with me most likely. What it certainly isn't is brainwashing, my kids are empowered to be who they want to be in whatever area they want to be so long as they respect themselves and those around them but ignoring the in-direct influences parents have is just silly Good points, well made 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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