The Gender Debate

[G51]

On 29/06/2022 at 20:22, Theroadlesstravelled said:

This hasn’t gone well for Halifax. Going baw deep and telling people to take their money elsewhere if they don’t like it is a strange tactic in Gammon Britain.

 

Halifax may have defrauded millions of people, but they added pronouns to their badge, so it’s impossible to say if they’re good or not 

[BFTD]

On 24/06/2022 at 19:40, AsimButtHitsASix said:

This whole gender debate has went too far. Now East Stirling have put their players gender identities on the away kit.

Not much to do with genitals I'm afraid, but those are cracking kit designs. Hope the Shire make a decent wedge selling replicas of those this season.

[carpetmonster]

On 24/06/2022 at 05:55, BFTD said:

I'll miss Oaksoft's contributions now he's realised how worthless they are.

GBNF xxx

Oh ye of too much faith. 

[carpetmonster]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

 

Oh aye. Gervais should take some pointers in "comedy" from the likes of you eh?

Deary me.

I do like that you’ve got “comedy” in quotations because that’s essentially the essence. If you don’t have to formulate actual jokes but can wheedle gazillions out of Netflix by braying ‘women have got cocks’ at the easily satisfied, then why wouldn’t you? 

[bennett]

I'm identifying as a supermarket,  it started when I was lidl.

 

[Theroadlesstravelled]

2 hours ago, bennett said:

I'm identifying as a supermarket,  it started when I was lidl.

 

 

They say you’ll regret it when you’re an Aldi.

[Cosmic Joe]

22 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I have no skin in the game as regards the trans debate and as far as I'm concerned, people can be whoever the hell they want.

However, there does seem to be a growing trend where people who are trying to understand what this is all about are not allowed to ask reasonable questions such as "what is a woman" or "what is a man" without an army of utter @&%@/ jumping down their throats and making accusations of transphobia against them.

This sort of response just isn't helpful to anyone - least of all the trans community as the general public try to get to grips with what trans is all about.

What also isn't helpful is a response such as "it's more complicated than that".

But hey, if the people truly believe that responding in such a militant way is aiding the trans cause, I suppose they can fill their boots.

It's hardly militant to query why folk are getting their knickers in a twist over a minute percentage of the population who don't feel comfortable at being born with their given genitalia. 

Live and let live. Be happy that you don't have to face such horrible prejudice. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Bully Wee Villa

[Cosmic Joe]

9 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

What on earth is all this wittering shite?

Nobody is getting their knickers in a twist. Nobody is unhappy. A simple question was asked and that was whether anyone was able to give an answer to "what is a man or a woman".

Are you able to answer those questions or not?

It's whatever you identify with. 

Happy? 

[Cosmic Joe]

4 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I'm always happy. Early retirement does that to a person.

That however is besides the point.

So, let me try again. When I consider my gender I do so because I know what sex chromosomes I have and what my sex organs are. It's pretty straight forwards for me to answer the question "what makes me a man".

Now in the absence of being able to use that description of a man, what does a trans man for example actually mean when they say "I am a man" and what does a trans woman mean when they say "I am a woman"? What do they actually mean by that? It's a perfectly reasonable question. That's the bit which is confusing a lot of people and the Woke Folk screaming at them about being transphobic for asking that question isn't helpful.

My suspicion is that deep down inside, none of you tossing about the transphobia accusations have the faintest idea but I'm happy (again) to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Why don't you ask a transgender person? 

 

[carpetmonster]

9 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

 

Now in the absence of being able to use that description of a man, what does a trans man for example actually mean when they say "I am a man" and what does a trans woman mean when they say "I am a woman"? What do they actually mean by that? It's a perfectly reasonable question. That's the bit which is confusing a lot of people 

They mean ‘I am a man’ or ‘I am a woman’ and if they’re being sincere then you accept that. Hence pronoun badges at the Halifax actually being useful as it avoids any confusion around accidentally misgendering people. 

 

The exception might be in medical situations eg 

‘Doctor, I have a swelling on my testicle’

’But you’re a woman’ 

‘Yes, but I was assigned male at birth’

’Ok, let’s get that checked out then’. 

[BFTD]

Ah, the Tucker Carlson strategy. Here's a bunch of questions that I could easily Google, but I'd rather seethe in my performative ignorance.

It's an odd way to spend a happy, satisfied retirement, but each to their own.

Edited July 2, 2022 by BFTD
Forgot the important "performative" part!

[carpetmonster]

Just now, oaksoft said:

OK so you don't know. Fair enough.

 

That's a lot of words for "I don't know".

 

It really isn’t. I was going to put in something about ‘if they tell that and it’s in good faith then accept that - however I know you have issues with the concept of good faith’ but decided to give you the benefit of the doubt. 
 

Why are you asking now anyway, given 3 pages ago you were having a wee hissy fit that people ‘had told you what to think’? What answer is it you’re actually looking for? 

[Miguel Sanchez]

"Why won't people who don't experience dysphoria tell me what experiencing dysphoria feels like?"

[welshbairn]

It's not rocket science. A trans woman feels more suited to living her life as a woman than as a man.

[Cosmic Joe]

13 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

OK so you don't know. Fair enough.

 

That's a lot of words for "I don't know".

 

It's Pride month. There will almost certainly be an event near you. 

You will never have a better opportunity to have a chat with a transgender individual. 

Edited to add

Oopsey. It's July now. There is always next year

Edited July 2, 2022 by Cosmic Joe

[Dawson Park Boy]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

It's not rocket science. A trans woman feels more suited to living her life as a woman than as a man.

Okay, live and let live but do you agree, in terms of fairness, that there is no way that a trans woman should compete in women’s sports where physicality is important.

Also, in terms of science she’s still a man, can’t have children ,no menopause, etc., etc.

[carpetmonster]

20 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Okay, live and let live but do you agree, in terms of fairness, that there is no way that a trans woman should compete in women’s sports where physicality is important.

 

I don't. There isn't nearly enough scientific basis as to how to include or exclude at the moment. For example Verity Smith - a trans man - plays wheelchair rugby on a mens team - a sport so physical it was known for years as 'murderball' and has just won the wheelchair Rugby League title with Leeds Rhinos wheelchair side. Caster Semenya is classed by the IOC as male for certain events and femaie for others so it seems the authorities don't have much of a clue either as yet. Transgender athletes have been allowed to compete at the Olympics since 2004 and only one has medaled thus far - a Canadian athlete in the womens' soccer team. If trans women should be dominant, by whatever logic, in women's sports, then they're making a dreadful go of it thus far. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by carpetmonster

[Sergeant Wilson]

13 minutes ago, Cosmic Joe said:

It's Pride month. There will almost certainly be an event near you. 

You will never have a better opportunity to have a chat with a transgender individual. 

Edited to add

Oopsey. It's July now. There is always next year

It's The Orange Walk as well, try not to get mixed up. It might not end well.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Okay, live and let live but do you agree, in terms of fairness, that there is no way that a trans woman should compete in women’s sports where physicality is important.

Also, in terms of science she’s still a man, can’t have children ,no menopause, etc., etc.

The science thing is irrelevant to how she feels most comfortable, which is the only issue as far as I'm concerned. As regards sports there shouldn't be a hard and fast rule covering all sports, wouldn't be a problem in horse racing for example. Where transitioning gives an obvious and unfair advantage I don't see how they can do other than ban entry, and where feasible set up another category of race where anyone can compete.

[carpetmonster]

42 minutes ago, Cosmic Joe said:

It's Pride month. There will almost certainly be an event near you. 

You will never have a better opportunity to have a chat with a transgender individual. 

Edited to add

Oopsey. It's July now. There is always next year

The big Pride in London's on today, there might still be some stuff elsewhere.