vikingTON Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, welshbairn said: There are no binary rules for releasing prisoners on probation, a risk assessment has to be taken on a case by case basis. Not relevant, nor does it address the obvious flaws in the 'risk assessment' magic wand already identified. Quote Categorical rules on where there's a gender question about where convicts should serve their sentence would just be silly No, what's silly is the SG responding to daft tabloid headlines to shunt transgender inmates from one institution to another on a near daily basis. The principle of self-ID ultimately creates just such a categorical rule. An inmate's fundamental human right to identify themselves by a gender of their choice - recognised through a legal process - will not in practice be overridden by 'risk assessment' or 'case by case basis'. The alternative after all is to incarcerate self-identifying females in a men's prison at severe risk of abuse, just because it saves the SG embarrassment. What's striking here is just how quickly so many people have abandoned the cause of the most vulnerable transgender group in society by some distance - prison inmates - in order to circle the wagons around the wider, abstractly progressive principle of the GRA. At least have the courage to exercise your conviction FFS. Edited February 4, 2023 by vikingTON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 It's all daft anyway, because a trans woman doesn't need a gender recognition certificate to be entered into a female prison, anyone can request it, and have their suitability assessed. Nothing changes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 12 minutes ago, virginton said: An inmate's fundamental human right to identify themselves by a gender of their choice - recognised through a legal process - will not in practice be overridden by 'risk assessment' or 'case by case basis'. Weasel words from you. Again. World of difference between 'self identify' and, 'identify themselves'. The latter have gone through a robust proctors - to their credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 4 minutes ago, welshbairn said: It's all daft anyway, because a trans woman doesn't need a gender recognition certificate to be entered into a female prison, anyone can request it, and have their suitability assessed. Nothing changes. That's simply not true. 1) The societal context for any suitability assessment changes following the GRA (indeed I'd assume that's one of the broader purpose of the act - to shift the starting point towards accounting for transgender rights in all settings). 2) The legal basis to challenge the outcome of a suitability/risk assessment etc. in prison is fundamentally altered by the outside society accepting the principle of self-ID of gender. Because that's a fundamental human right that cannot be magically denied to prison inmates for reasons. It's also utterly laughable to pretend that a transgender inmate can fairly claim recognition under the existing system, when the SG has just been busy punting transgender inmates from one institution to another based on protecting themselves from the tabloid press rather than any consistent assessment of the inmate's needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, virginton said: Because that's a fundamental human right that cannot be magically denied to prison inmates for reasons. And that concludes my argument your honour. Edited February 4, 2023 by welshbairn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 3 minutes ago, virginton said: It's also utterly laughable to pretend that a transgender inmate can fairly claim recognition under the existing system, when the SG has just been busy punting transgender inmates from one institution to another based on protecting themselves from the tabloid press rather than any consistent assessment of the inmate's needs. The SG- the most idiotic regional administration known to man - don't even recognise their own act. Nippy and Gilruth - in their cack-handed way - both demonstrated the idiocy of Self-ID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 25 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: The SG- the most idiotic regional administration known to man - don't even recognise their own act. Nippy and Gilruth - in their cack-handed way - both demonstrated the idiocy of Self-ID Maybe try a wee bit harder to get VT's attention. Three totally rubbered posts in a row obviously isn't going to cut it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I see that the previously banned Jupe - the fannies' fanny- is trying to make himself relevant. Again. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 30 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: I see that the previously banned Jupe - the fannies' fanny- is trying to make himself relevant. Again. Good to see the previously banned Kinc yet again providing the easiest bite on the forum. Fabulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Kincardine accusing someone of becoming a parody of themselves is...... Well its quite something really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 I note that the Welsh Government is proposing to make it easier to change gender in that country. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64548844 Their intention is to trigger a request to the UK government to devolve the ability to make this change to the Welsh parliament - sadly, I think we all know what the answer will be. England is looking like even more of an outlier now that Wales is looking to take a similar path to Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 On 03/02/2023 at 18:41, Suspect Device said: Which is why I question the FM's motives bringing forward a divisive issue like this when we are allegedly trying to get a referendum this year. It was in their manifesto in 2016 and the bill was first introduced in 2017. They'd already spent far too many years delaying to pander to legitimate concerns, and had they not done so it would have been passed before a culture war had been whipped up to the extent it has. Failing to deliver legislation you believe is right which you've had as a manifesto commitment when winning elections twice because it's divisive would be total cowardice, particularly if the rationale for doing so is "the rights of a vulnerable minority are trumped by constitutional politics." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 43 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said: It was in their manifesto in 2016 and the bill was first introduced in 2017. They'd already spent far too many years delaying to pander to legitimate concerns, and had they not done so it would have been passed before a culture war had been whipped up to the extent it has. Failing to deliver legislation you believe is right which you've had as a manifesto commitment when winning elections twice because it's divisive would be total cowardice, particularly if the rationale for doing so is "the rights of a vulnerable minority are trumped by constitutional politics." It was also Tory Party policy under May - that's why it's a bullshit argument regards the Scottish Government looking for a grievance. If anyone is indulging in grievance politics it's the current Tory leadership and the assorted genital inspectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goomba Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 KJK is one annoying nyaff, but she's building some movement here. Scots don't want this. -6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Goomba said: KJK is one annoying nyaff, but she's building some movement here. Scots don't want this. She’s a fascist, her demo attenders are bussed in from here, there and everywhere and they were still outnumbered by the counter protest. ETA - I presume some of the number such as Graham Linehan and Alistair ‘Manky Jaiket’ McConnachie got there under their own steam. Edited February 7, 2023 by carpetmonster 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goomba Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 15 hours ago, carpetmonster said: She’s a fascist, her demo attenders are bussed in from here, there and everywhere and they were still outnumbered by the counter protest. ETA - I presume some of the number such as Graham Linehan and Alistair ‘Manky Jaiket’ McConnachie got there under their own steam. Fascist? Really? Fascism - Wikipedia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 How dare the tofu eating wokerati go after a completely fictional entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Goomba said: Fascist? Really? Fascism - Wikipedia Yes. She’s Islamophobic, has openly praised Yaxley-Lennon before, had Proud Boys provide her ‘security’ on more than one occasion in the US - Chicago and IIRC Miami. Believe me, I’m familiar with the ‘eVErYthINg I doNT LiKe IS fasCISM’ trope, however I do have a degree in English and am aware there’s a whole coterie of descriptors in my quiver. I try and select accurately. Maybe you should be asking those who’d describe her as a TERF what the f**k is feminist about her proclaiming - direct quote - “Each and every one of you women who stand in my way… will be annihilated”. Can you tell me? Edited February 8, 2023 by carpetmonster Formatting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 21 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said: How dare the tofu eating wokerati go after a completely fictional entity. Unbelievably, the 5live phone in is about whether the supposed creator of the universe has XY chromosomes and a boaby. The boaby police will do their nut. Tomorrow, can the Loch Ness Monster ride a bike and on Friday, do ghosts like cheese? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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