Leith Green Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 This article is notionally reporting on the SPS review of the Isla Bryson case. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64590421 But half way in, it then starts to repeat some of the "ah but this shows you what the GRR would do" shite from the likes of JK Rowling. I wonder at what point a BBC journalist will do a story on the Isla Bryson situation and preface it all by reminding readers that this situation actually emerged under the law as it stands and the GRR bill will have absolutely f**k all to do with the actions of this monster? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 19 minutes ago, Leith Green said: I wonder at what point a BBC journalist will do a story on the Isla Bryson situation and preface it all by reminding readers that this situation actually emerged under the law as it stands and the GRR bill will have absolutely f**k all to do with the actions of this monster? I believe "never" is the answer to this. Still at least they were nice enough to give that bigot children's book author some free publicity. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 25 minutes ago, Leith Green said: This article is notionally reporting on the SPS review of the Isla Bryson case. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64590421 But half way in, it then starts to repeat some of the "ah but this shows you what the GRR would do" shite from the likes of JK Rowling. I wonder at what point a BBC journalist will do a story on the Isla Bryson situation and preface it all by reminding readers that this situation actually emerged under the law as it stands and the GRR bill will have absolutely f**k all to do with the actions of this monster? Actually GMS was fairly balanced this morning. They did carry the viewpoint that GRR was immaterial and of course, the culture war tolies said it was. They also carried a piece calling out the blessed JKR. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, sophia said: They also carried a piece calling out the blessed JKR. Glad someone did. She deserves it too. And I say that as a middle aged white bloke from a forces family. I don't pretend to have the answers, I'm just deeply uncomfortable with what has been a horrible pile on on one of the most marginalised groups in society. Edited February 10, 2023 by AndyM 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orfc Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 03/02/2023 at 11:24, orfc said: Maybe they realised the difficulties / nuances involved? A lot of this is about optics and the SNP have absolutely ballsed it And of course it's not like the SNP turn 180 on issues is it? An economy based on $113 per barrel of oil at the last indyref to oil is bad m'kay today. Another green-led issue strangely, the tail is wagging the dog. Any nationalists left in the SNP or have they all buggered off to Alba https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/10/cochranes-scotland-sturgeons-alliance-greens-tail-no-dog/ This b*gger's stole all my posts and stitched them together for a telegraph article What a great judge of opinion he is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 2 hours ago, orfc said: This b*gger's stole all my posts and stitched them together for a telegraph article I'd be keeping that quiet tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Leith Green said: I wonder at what point a BBC journalist will do a story on the Isla Bryson situation and preface it all by reminding readers that this situation actually emerged under the law as it stands and the GRR bill will have absolutely f**k all to do with the actions of this monster? Hardly a convincing line, given that supporters of GRR insisted that there were already strict risk assessments that couldn't possibly lead to any GRR issues in a prison environment. It turns out that wasn't true. And one reason why it's not true is that the prison authorities worked out their most recent pre-risk assessment handling of inmates with the Scottish Trans Alliance. This understandably shifted the starting basis towards an assumption of self-ID, that the SG has furiously been backpedaling from in the case of selected 'wrong 'uns' highlighted by the tabloid press. It is yet to actually find a consistent policy though. A recognition of self-ID rights across the entire public sphere shifts the starting assumptions for inmates as much as any other person with human rights. It is intellectually honest to accept that issue as Worth It to achieve a broader change. It is either intellectually dishonest or plain stupid to claim that a magical force field forever separates the treatment of inmates in prisons from the social context. Yet the SG and its followers have chosen the latter, instead of having the courage of their supposed convictions. It's far from a good look. Edited February 10, 2023 by vikingTON 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 07/02/2023 at 08:38, Dunning1874 said: It was in their manifesto in 2016 and the bill was first introduced in 2017. They'd already spent far too many years delaying to pander to legitimate concerns, and had they not done so it would have been passed before a culture war had been whipped up to the extent it has. The SNP has pledged to abolish the Council Tax and won on that 'manifesto mandate' since 2007. 16 years later, the Council Tax has not changed one bit. The SNP stood on the creation of a national energy wholesale supplier: that has quite right been binned as unworkable in the current circumstances. A policy appearing in a manifesto backed by the tiny minority of people who are party activists is not actually a sacred cow. Sensible governments including the SG for the most part have ditched the obvious duds to relatively little cost. Regardless of your stance, pursuing this policy has quite clearly sucked a ridiculous amount of political oxygen in the room. It's dreadful politics. Quote Failing to deliver legislation you believe is right which you've had as a manifesto commitment when winning elections twice because it's divisive would be total cowardice, particularly if the rationale for doing so is "the rights of a vulnerable minority are trumped by constitutional politics." Except that the rights of a vulnerable minority are now being trumped by party politics, which is why trans inmates are being arbitrarily chucked in prisons of their birth gender on the whim of the SG and the tabloid press 'outing' them. In what way is that progress? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonytoons Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 08/02/2023 at 11:19, Suspect Device said: God? I don't think so but unfortunately can't prove it. I also can't prove there's not a flying teapot or spaghetti monster. Of whatever gender. Edit: Apparently a Teapot is feminine. (In French) https://youtu.be/cDWxtduaQdE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 10 hours ago, virginton said: Hardly a convincing line, given that supporters of GRR insisted that there were already strict risk assessments that couldn't possibly lead to any GRR issues in a prison environment. It turns out that wasn't true. And one reason why it's not true is that the prison authorities worked out their most recent pre-risk assessment handling of inmates with the Scottish Trans Alliance. This understandably shifted the starting basis towards an assumption of self-ID, that the SG has furiously been backpedaling from in the case of selected 'wrong 'uns' highlighted by the tabloid press. It is yet to actually find a consistent policy though. A recognition of self-ID rights across the entire public sphere shifts the starting assumptions for inmates as much as any other person with human rights. It is intellectually honest to accept that issue as Worth It to achieve a broader change. It is either intellectually dishonest or plain stupid to claim that a magical force field forever separates the treatment of inmates in prisons from the social context. Yet the SG and its followers have chosen the latter, instead of having the courage of their supposed convictions. It's far from a good look. I'm not entirely convinced at all of this - regulations and laws evolve alongside societal evolution, but not always at the "right" time for all parts of society. The SPS regulations did, as you say, seem to fit with what the STA felt was appropriate, however those regulations and advice didnt really take account of someone using them in such bad faith as in this case. I think that the original regs were broadly fine, and it seems that Isla Bryson was evaluated in Cornton without any danger to the women in that unit, so they could be deemed to have worked appropriately. So while I dont really disagree with your intellectual point that self i.d. should extend to all spheres of society (including prisoners), there are practicalities to be considered among the prison population which are not applicable to wider society. I dont think its a magical force field, merely an admission that prisons are not the same. Within the population of Male and Female prisons there are non trans inmates who are segregated and removed from the general population for reasons of safety (theirs and the other population) as a matter of course. I dont really know the answer, and I wouldnt be entirely surprised if we ended up having to open separate assessment centres within the prison estate in order that remand / pre sentencing prisoners are evaluated against their claimed gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Reports that 16 year old Brianna Ghey (formerly known as Brett Ghey) was murdered in Warrington over the weekend in what some believe was an anti trans hate crime. Sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 42 minutes ago, Donathan said: Reports that 16 year old Brianna Ghey (formerly known as Brett Ghey) was murdered in Warrington over the weekend in what some believe was an anti trans hate crime. Sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAD Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 It's only ok to speculate on the motives of people who want to change their gender, not the people who murder them. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Police now actively thinking it might be a hate crime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 Telegraph reporting that the SNP are going to drop their legal case into the WM blocking of the gender bill, meaning the GRA is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 36 minutes ago, Donathan said: Telegraph reporting that the SNP are going to drop their legal case into the WM blocking of the gender bill, meaning the GRA is dead. You mean this story? You might want to read it first. It's like a breathless 15 year old writing a w**k fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH33 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 I tore my mother a new one last night, she was like oh 16 too young. I asked her if she'd therefore stop people going to fight with the army and why would she be against people who have probably suffered for years changing a piece of paper. Doubt she's changed her mind but she had no argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 14 minutes ago, RH33 said: I tore my mother a new one last night, she was like oh 16 too young. I asked her if she'd therefore stop people going to fight with the army and why would she be against people who have probably suffered for years changing a piece of paper. Doubt she's changed her mind but she had no argument. You never will. People have those prejudices ingrained. They're the same folk you'll gurning about "WHAT ABOUT A STRAIGHT PRIDE DAY" in the comments sections of the papers. There's zero point in debating the matter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 27 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nevis said: You never will. People have those prejudices ingrained. They're the same folk you'll gurning about "WHAT ABOUT A STRAIGHT PRIDE DAY" in the comments sections of the papers. There's zero point in debating the matter. Many of the arguments are the same when homosexuality was decriminalised - it is quite simply bigotry. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 14 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Many of the arguments are the same when homosexuality was decriminalised - it is quite simply bigotry. The good old British tradition of punching down on those who are either poor, marginalised, "different" or combinations thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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