The Gender Debate

[williemillersmoustache]

There's clearly a fair amount of misinformation out there about this bill but, and while I claim no particular expertise, I can confidently assert getting your flaps out in Parliament or any other public space remains an offence under Section 66 of the sexual offences act 2003. 

[Detournement]

Just now, carpetmonster said:

She must have some powers of foresight to have started talking about GRC in 2016/2017 anticipating the Covid pandemic. Does she take DM's on Twitter about the lottery numbers?

And when did she get the nodding dogs in the Parliament to pass it?

Right after she made an arse of Indyref2 and right before they walk back calling the next GE a defacto referendum. 

[Boo Khaki]

10 minutes ago, Aufc said:

I genuinely haven’t followed any of this as it’s really of no interest to me what people get upto. However, reading a bit on twitter there. What’s the deal? So a male prisoner can decide to be housed in a female jail? Male sex offenders can be housed with vulnerable women? All seems very bizarre to me. It’s a shame that normal people going, what is I imagine a very confusing process, are grouped together with others as above. 

Nope. This is yet another of the untruths and deliberate misrepresentations of reality repeated endlessly by opponents of Self-ID.

Prisoners are evaluated on a case-by-case basis and entirely by Prison authorities. It's entirely at the discretion of prison estate and governance who they choose to put where.

Organisations are entirely free to discriminate where and when there is a justifiable reason to do so, thanks to provisions in the Equality Act. There is nothing in the GRC reform bill that changes this.

[carpetmonster]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

And when did she get the nodding dogs in the Parliament to pass it?

Right after she made an arse of Indyref2 and right before they walk back calling the next GE a defacto referendum. 

Except that falls apart when 34 MSPs outside the SNP voted for it. 27 outside of the SNP and Greens. 

[williemillersmoustache]

2 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

Nope. This is yet another of the untruths and deliberate misrepresentations of reality repeated endlessly by opponents of Self-ID.

Prisoners are evaluated on a case-by-case basis and entirely by Prison authorities. It's entirely at the discretion of prison estate and governance who they choose to put where.

Organisations are entirely free to discriminate where and when there is a justifiable reason to do so, thanks to provisions in the Equality Act. There is nothing in the GRC reform bill that changes this.

Wait does this mean that the playground tittle tattle of circa 1994 was correct in that "Yer Maws got baws and yer daddy likes it?" 

Huge if true.

[carpetmonster]

Just now, Detournement said:

They were allowed to dissent because it was going to pass anyway. 

No, I'm talking about the Labour, Lib Dem and Tory MSPs who voted FOR It. They're Nicola Sturgeon's nodding dogs, aye?

[Wee Bully]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

They were allowed to dissent because it was going to pass anyway. 

I know you were H_B, but were you running the Oaksoft account too?  Your desperation here is palpable.

[Clown Job]

16 minutes ago, Detournement said:

If you go to a gym or swimming pool it's lottery what you'll see in either changing room

You pervert 

[Detournement]

Just now, carpetmonster said:

No, I'm talking about the Labour, Lib Dem and Tory MSPs who voted FOR It. They're Nicola Sturgeon's nodding dogs, aye?

Labour were whipped and are exactly as useless a group of politicians as the SNP. 

I've no idea what the Lib Dems and the Tories are up to. 

[alta-pete]

I have no skin in this game. But I am surprised (actually maybe not) at the number of posters who seem to think they do when they similarly have no skin in the same game.

Whether the legislation is right or wrong it seems there’s a number that are prepared to push it on, just coz…

Or, another perspective - pick any political party other than the SNP that might have chosen to promote it (when the initial view was it garnered generally cross-house support) - and I sincerely doubt it’d still be so resolutely driven by those same posters. Make of that what you will. 

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

 

I've no idea 

FTFY

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, alta-pete said:

I have no skin in this game. But I am surprised (actually maybe not) at the number of posters who seem to think they do when they similarly have no skin in the same game.

Whether the legislation is right or wrong it seems there’s a number that are prepared to push it on, just coz…

Or, another perspective - pick any political party other than the SNP that might have chosen to promote it (when the initial view was it garnered generally cross-house support) - and I sincerely doubt it’d still be so resolutely driven by those same posters. Make of that what you will. 

Speaking personally, I was all in favour of Justine Greening's bill in Westminster passing but May never got round to it before she was emptied and the Tories have gone full culture war since. I do think the SNP deserve some props for standing firm in the face of that culture war, and I've even been impressed by Alex Cole-Hamilton (and that's something I never thought I'd say) being so clear on the issue.

[Detournement]

Just now, alta-pete said:

I have no skin in this game.

Everyone has skin in the game as we all identify as a sex/gender and how that is legally defined in Scotland has now changed due to the whims of Sturgeon's social circle and the votes of people who will vote for literally anything if it means staying on the Holyrood gravy train. 

 

 

[Clown Job]

The Tories have always opposed equality measures for the LGBT community
 

This is who they have always been 

[Detournement]

Just now, Clown Job said:

The Tories have always opposed equality measures for the LGBT community
 

This is who they have always been 

Sturgeon opposed gay rights as well when there was a few quid in it for her. 

 

[Mark Connolly]

17 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Wait does this mean that the playground tittle tattle of circa 1994 was correct in that "Yer Maws got baws and yer daddy likes it?" 

Huge if true.

If your auntie had baws, she'd be getting them out in swimming pool changing rooms

[carpetmonster]

Just now, Mark Connolly said:

If your auntie had baws, she'd be getting them out in swimming pool changing rooms

Aye, you need to go to Holyrood to get your clopper out in this day and age, it's a disgrace. 

[williemillersmoustache]

1 minute ago, Mark Connolly said:

If your auntie had baws, she'd be getting them out in swimming pool changing rooms

"Yer auntie gets her baws oot for the swimming team lads" is pure 1996 patois. A vintage year. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

32 minutes ago, Detournement said:

That won't happen because it's self ID in name only and Police Scotland have the final say on who is what gender. Modern Scotland to a tee. 

It's an absolutely pointless bill that has only been passed to create headlines  and deflect from the fact that Sturgeon - who opposed Section 28 being repealed - has zero achievements in office other than passing Harold Shipman on the list of pensioner killers. 

 

Police Scotland dont decide which prison people go to. 

30 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

There's clearly a fair amount of misinformation out there about this bill but, and while I claim no particular expertise, I can confidently assert getting your flaps out in Parliament or any other public space remains an offence under Section 66 of the sexual offences act 2003. 

Section 8 Sexual Offences Scotland Act. 

[Boo Khaki]

7 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Everyone has skin in the game as we all identify as a sex/gender and how that is legally defined in Scotland has now changed due to the whims of Sturgeon's social circle and the votes of people who will vote for literally anything if it means staying on the Holyrood gravy train. 

 

No, we don't, and no, it hasn't.

As Lady Haldane pointed out, 'sex' as referenced in the Equality Act has always referred to 'legal sex'. Contrary to the claims of 'bringing confusion', she actually clarified the matter, even though it was always abundantly clear in the first place.

The ranting about 'biological sex' is nothing but a strawman concocted by transphobes. There never was any reference to 'biological sex' in the relevant laws and acts they keep bringing up, because there is and never was any requirement for there to be. The Equality Act was always intended to apply to sex as it is legally defined, and it beggars belief that groups such as For Women Scotland think this is in any way unclear or ambiguous.