mathematics Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Donathan said: Can someone give me a quick TLDR explanation of what this GRA actually means? From what I can gather, the current situation is that a person who wishes to become transgender and legally change their gender has to jump through a bunch of hoops, e.g., permission from doctors and prove they’ve been living as their new gender for a minimum period, whereas the new act will make it much simpler, i.e., a person would have the right to change their gender at the stroke of a pen? Can’t say I see a huge issue with it, especially given the current state of NHS waiting lists. Must admit though that I always thought the process of becoming trans actually involved surgery so that your body resembles that of your new gender. I think it’s three months living in new gender. No doctor evaluation required. No surgery required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathematics Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, Donathan said: Can someone give me a quick TLDR explanation of what this GRA actually means? From what I can gather, the current situation is that a person who wishes to become transgender and legally change their gender has to jump through a bunch of hoops, e.g., permission from doctors and prove they’ve been living as their new gender for a minimum period, whereas the new act will make it much simpler, i.e., a person would have the right to change their gender at the stroke of a pen? Can’t say I see a huge issue with it, especially given the current state of NHS waiting lists. Must admit though that I always thought the process of becoming trans actually involved surgery so that your body resembles that of your new gender. Also, down to 16 years old from 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, mathematics said: I think it’s three months living in new gender. No doctor evaluation required. No surgery required. From the BBC Link above - "Presently, people must apply to a UK gender recognition panel, provide two medical reports as well as proof of having lived in their acquired gender for at least two years. They must also swear an oath that they intend to live in that gender for the rest of their lives. The new bill would retain the requirement to swear an oath - with potential prosecution for false statements. They would need to live in their acquired gender for three months, followed by a three-month "reflection period" before a certificate was issued, and applications would be handled by the Registrar General for Scotland." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 What's perhaps more surprising was that two Tories apparently voted with a conscience in favour of the proposals, and against the approach being taken by their colleagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 31 minutes ago, Donathan said: Can someone give me a quick TLDR explanation of what this GRA actually means? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: So basically, the common arguments against are just thinly veiled discriminatory dog whistles against the tiny minority of the population that wish to live as the opposite gender to what their body suggests? This debate seems to get way too much airtime tbh. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Donathan said: So basically, the common arguments against are just thinly veiled discriminatory dog whistles against the tiny minority of the population that wish to live as the opposite gender to what their body suggests? This debate seems to get way too much airtime tbh. Yes and yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 It's not that surprising as it was the Tories who introduced the gender recognition reform act, I can't recall the precise title, into Westminister. They've rowed back on it now. Ash Regan signed a letter to the Scotsman with concerns about the proposed reforms a couple of years ago - Kate Forbes was another signatory. As someone else noted she is on maternity leave at the moment so didn't have to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 26 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: What's perhaps more surprising was that two Tories apparently voted with a conscience in favour of the proposals, and against the approach being taken by their colleagues. GRC reform was a Tory policy in the first place - Justine Greening proposed it in 2017. May was in favor of pushing it thru, but didn’t get around to it and then it got jettisoned as the Tories went full culture war. https://inews.co.uk/news/justine-greening-confirms-plans-revolutionise-gender-recognition-act-80345 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, ICTChris said: It's not that surprising as it was the Tories who introduced the gender recognition reform act, I can't recall the precise title, into Westminister. They've rowed back on it now. Ash Regan signed a letter to the Scotsman with concerns about the proposed reforms a couple of years ago - Kate Forbes was another signatory. As someone else noted she is on maternity leave at the moment so didn't have to vote. Is she not a mad bible basher? She would definitely vote against the bill IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 I'm fairly ambivalent to the gender recognition bill itself but I do question why the Scottish government thought it would be a good idea to bring in such a divisive bill when they were just about to go for indyref2. It seems a strange time to be splitting people along culture war lines when they need everyone to be more unified. So far the SNP have run quite a tight ship in terms of party discipline, so this is the wrong time to be infighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, TheScarf said: Is she not a mad bible basher? She would definitely vote against the bill IMO. Got up the stick deliberately IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugster Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, TheScarf said: Is she not a mad bible basher? She would definitely vote against the bill IMO. Oh indeed she is. Wee Free. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: I'm fairly ambivalent to the gender recognition bill itself but I do question why the Scottish government thought it would be a good idea to bring in such a divisive bill when they were just about to go for indyref2. It seems a strange time to be splitting people along culture war lines when they need everyone to be more unified. So far the SNP have run quite a tight ship in terms of party discipline, so this is the wrong time to be infighting. GRC reform was also on the 2021 Election manifestos of the Scottish Greens, Scottish Lib Dems and the branch office. Only way it wasn’t happening was if it was Tory control or Keith told Anas not to get ideas above his station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, TheScarf said: Is she not a mad bible basher? She would definitely vote against the bill IMO. She's a Free Presbyterian, I think. I'm think, in fact I know, that her religious convictions are genuine but it isn't a bad career move for a politician in the Highlands to be a Wee Free. I'm sure Blackford began attending Free Church services around the time of his election. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 If we are talking about politicians pretending to be Presbyterians for electoral purposes, the absolute GOAT is this guy, who claims he's a Presbyterian. Not sure how many Wee Frees have three divorces and have run casinos but who am I to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 The right wing media certainly have done a grand job of whipping up hatred and fear about this issue, despite how very few folk it has an impact on and how, for the vast majority of people in the country, it has absolutely nothing to do with them. They tried the same thing with gay people in the past. This is just the latest in a long line of people the right wing demonise to distract (although given how most right wingers are rabid bigots and racists etc, I don't doubt they hate a whole host of people for things like race, sexuality, gender etc). See guys like Oaksoft who have totally fallen for it, although I suspect in his case he sprinted towards that position rather openly. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: I'm fairly ambivalent to the gender recognition bill itself but I do question why the Scottish government thought it would be a good idea to bring in such a divisive bill when they were just about to go for indyref2. It seems a strange time to be splitting people along culture war lines when they need everyone to be more unified. So far the SNP have run quite a tight ship in terms of party discipline, so this is the wrong time to be infighting. I suspect they would happily have let it go on the back burner after it was raised to peak twitter storm, after starting off uncontroversially, but the Greens made it a condition of their support. I think they also realise that most of the electorate don't give a toss about the issue either way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 7 hours ago, Granny Danger said: Two Tory MSPs backed the Bill against their party’s position and a further two abstained. https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23083443.scottish-gender-recognition-tory-msp-breaks-ranks-vote/ Fine It should be a matter for individual conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandon Par Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Gordon Brown pretended to be a Raith fan when New Labour came along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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