The Gender Debate

[Bairnardo]

If it's not rocket science, you'll have no problem explaining what that actually means.
The question is very simple and it's interesting that it's provoking insults from some and circular arguments like yours here.
It's always a sign that those answering haven't the faintest idea what they are talking about.

I am sure we had a thread fairly recently where your demands for all men to be better included going and speaking to any women in their lives and directly asking them about any sort of misogyny, harassment, intimidation they have faced from men.

Now whilst trans people may be harder to find, I dont think it's unreasonable that you should take your own advice and go directly to the people affected.

Unless of course your wokesoft phase is just an attempt to score points on the Internet?

This is an incredibly sensitive, and actually difficult to understand to the average punter topic. Folk like you charging around looking for a gotcha with your clever questions helps precisely no one.

Why don't you instead approach from an angle of accepting you dont really understand, but with a starting point of sensitivity to the people who suffer from societies ignorance, and work back from there?

[Moomintroll]

1 hour ago, carpetmonster said:

Offer it a sugar lump and see if it tells you it’s watching its figure. 

But would that not be Mr Ed? Now I am confused.

[carpetmonster]

2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

The problem is that the same people who have lectured us all that what makes a man or a woman is NOT your chromosomes are absolutely clueless when it comes to explaining exactly what DOES make a woman/man.

 

Like you were told, go ask a transgender person. Human experiences are all different, and I'd imagine you'd get a lot of different answers, just as you would if you asked a cisgender person 'what makes you a man' or 'what makes you a woman'?

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, Moomintroll said:

But would that not be Mr Ed? Now I am confused.

[Kenneth840]

2 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

How do you know? Maybe he's my sister but I'm a raging transphobe and refuse to acknowledge that. 

Brother = Male

Sister = Female

You don't get to change language either. 

[carpetmonster]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

I am sure we had a thread fairly recently where your demands for all men to be better included going and speaking to any women in their lives and directly asking them about any sort of misogyny, harassment, intimidation they have faced from men.

Now whilst trans people may be harder to find, I dont think it's unreasonable that you should take your own advice and go directly to the people affected.

Unless of course your wokesoft phase is just an attempt to score points on the Internet?

This is an incredibly sensitive, and actually difficult to understand to the average punter topic. Folk like you charging around looking for a gotcha with your clever questions helps precisely no one.

Why don't you instead approach from an angle of accepting you dont really understand, but with a starting point of sensitivity to the people who suffer from societies ignorance, and work back from there?

Because 'jUST AskINg qUEstIONS' is the new 'dO yoUR OwN rESEarcH'. 

[carpetmonster]

Just now, Kenneth840 said:

Brother = Male

Sister = Female

You don't get to change language either. 

You do. New words appear in the Oxford English Dictionary every updated edition. Newspapers usually run articles about it when it happens. 

https://public.oed.com/updates/new-words-list-march-2022/

[Kenneth840]

4 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

Like you were told, go ask a transgender person. Human experiences are all different, and I'd imagine you'd get a lot of different answers, just as you would if you asked a cisgender person 'what makes you a man' or 'what makes you a woman'?

Boils down to what they were born with. 

[Bairnardo]

Very few of us do actually.
Live and let live.
But all some of us are asking is "transition to what exactly?  A man? A woman? Fine. No problem. What makes someone a man or a woman then? Because without that knowledge, what does 'transitioning' mean"? And it's simply not good enough for people to shout down those asking that perfectly reasonable question.

"You can be a man if you want, as long as you acknowledge that you're not a proper man like me" is the energy I get off this tbh

[Kenneth840]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Very few of us do actually.
Live and let live.
But all some of us are asking is "transition to what exactly?  A man? A woman? Fine. No problem. What makes someone a man or a woman then? Because without that knowledge, what does 'transitioning' mean"? And it's simply not good enough for people to shout down those asking that perfectly reasonable question.

"You can be a man if you want, as long as you acknowledge that you're not a proper man like me" is the energy I get off this tbh

Bam that lacks thinking. 

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

The problem is that the same people who have lectured us all that what makes a man or a woman is NOT your chromosomes are absolutely clueless when it comes to explaining exactly what DOES make a woman/man.

And here you are using a phrase like "backward way to think about things" without being able to answer the simple question being asked.

Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no? Simple question. You're asking for an engineering answer to a question of psychology, there's no one fits all answer. If you're genuinely interested to learn and not just taking the pish, I'm sure there are plenty of forums where you could ask trans people about their experiences.

Edited July 2, 2022 by welshbairn

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

You downvoted Kenneth's post where he describes what he thinks a man is.

So that means you must know what a man is.

Why won't you just tell us then? What exactly is your problem here?

Excellent, so now you're asking me to justify a coloured circle when you completely stonewalled me on the same request a few pages back. 

What makes me a man? I'm not sure. I was assigned male at birth and haven't had any serious quibbles with that. I like traditional 'male pursuits' and don't take a whole lot of pride with my appearance in the way that a lot of folks assigned female at birth stereotypically do. You could say that folks assigned female at birth also enjoy having a few pints and scratching their arse and I'd agree with you. It's pretty nebulous. Like lots of us have said now, everyone's got their own experience and you'll likely get as many different answers as there are people to answer it. 

[SweeperDee]

Sigh, 
This is ridiculous.  Why are people intent on believing they are something they are most definitely not.  Why the constant gaslighting of a population.  I would like to have someone paying my energy bills.  If I say to my energy provider I think you should be paying for it, will they?  We can all dream up shit and hope it happens, but this false bullshit is taking it to another level.  You do realise that you are being played by right wing capitalist pharma companies don't you?  Read the Denton report?  
Just watched a blackbird in the garden, it was beautiful and its mate a brown blackbird seeking worms.  You cannot change nature.  I just witnessed part of the reproductive system of nature.  You cannot change that, like you can't change the weather.  It is absurd to believe so. 
Male = Penis (creating sperm)
Female = Vagina/womb (creating eggs)
It is biological fact.  You cannot change it just because you say so.  If people have problems with their identity they should seek psychiatric help.  
 
 

Neither the Penis or Vagina/Womb creates their respective gametes, you imbecile.

[Kenneth840]

1 minute ago, carpetmonster said:

Excellent, so now you're asking me to justify a coloured circle when you completely stonewalled me on the same request a few pages back. 

What makes me a man? I'm not sure. I was assigned male at birth and haven't had any serious quibbles with that. I like traditional 'male pursuits' and don't take a whole lot of pride with my appearance in the way that a lot of folks assigned female at birth stereotypically do. You could say that folks assigned female at birth also enjoy having a few pints and scratching their arse and I'd agree with you. It's pretty nebulous. Like lots of us have said now, everyone's got their own experience and you'll likely get as many different answers as there are people to answer it. 

Male or female?

Penis or vagina?

Answer that then maybe we can help with your dysphoria. 

[Kenneth840]

1 minute ago, SweeperDee said:

Neither the Penis or Vagina/Womb creates their respective gametes, you imbecile.

I know a male has a penis and a woman a vagina. The same as nature does. 

Do you believe that 2 male animals can reproduce? 

[carpetmonster]

Just now, Kenneth840 said:

Male or female?

Penis or vagina?

Answer that then maybe we can help with your dysphoria. 

I was assigned male. 

I have a penis. 

Like I said in the post you quoted, I've never particularly had issues with gender dysphoria, but if you can help, then I'm all ears. (please note, biologically I have two ears. My left ear used to have four piercings in it but I took them out about 15 years ago, if that's useful). 

[SweeperDee]

I know a male has a penis and a woman a vagina. The same as nature does. 
Do you believe that 2 male animals can reproduce? 

Asexual reproduction is common in nature.

Males can be born with testicles, without a developed penis. Or vice versa.

Women can be born with nothing at all.

Both men and women can be born with both, albeit rare.

You’re out of your depth here.

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, SweeperDee said:

Asexual reproduction is common in nature.

Personally I just have a w**k and then let the bees get it over to the missus. 

[Kenneth840]

2 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

I was assigned male. 

I have a penis. 

Like I said in the post you quoted, I've never particularly had issues with gender dysphoria, but if you can help, then I'm all ears. (please note, biologically I have two ears. My left ear used to have four piercings in it but I took them out about 15 years ago, if that's useful). 

But do you have 2 penises though?  That is the question.  And a vagina at the same time. 

[SweeperDee]

But do you have 2 penises though?  That is the question.  And a vagina at the same time. 

The fact you’d brazenly (even though you’re trolling) ask a stranger online that question just about sums you up.