101 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 47 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: Okay, live and let live but do you agree, in terms of fairness, that there is no way that a trans woman should compete in women’s sports where physicality is important. Also, in terms of science she’s still a man, can’t have children ,no menopause, etc., etc. You know there are cis women who can't have children right? Defining people by what they can and cant do seems a completely backward way to think about things. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 35 minutes ago, welshbairn said: The science thing is irrelevant to how she feels most comfortable, which is the only issue as far as I'm concerned. As regards sports there shouldn't be a hard and fast rule covering all sports, wouldn't be a problem in horse racing for example. Where transitioning gives an obvious and unfair advantage I don't see how they can do other than ban entry, and where feasible set up another category of race where anyone can compete. How will the horse tell you it's transexual? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParsJake Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 hour ago, BFTD said: Ah, the Tucker Carlson strategy. Here's a bunch of questions that I could easily Google, but I'd rather seethe in my performative ignorance. It's an odd way to spend a happy, satisfied retirement, but each to their own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 40 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: I don't. There isn't nearly enough scientific basis as to how to include or exclude at the moment. For example Verity Smith - a trans man - plays wheelchair rugby on a mens team - a sport so physical it was known for years as 'murderball' and has just won the wheelchair Rugby League title with Leeds Rhinos wheelchair side. Caster Semenya is classed by the IOC as male for certain events and femaie for others so it seems the authorities don't have much of a clue either as yet. Transgender athletes have been allowed to compete at the Olympics since 2004 and only one has medaled thus far - a Canadian athlete in the womens' soccer team. If trans women should be dominant, by whatever logic, in women's sports, then they're making a dreadful go of it thus far. The only issue I have with your argument here is that until now, society has largely been very unforgiving and in some cases actively against trans people, making it difficult for them to transition or to thrive once they have done so. This has meant people either not transitioning at all, so the number of trans people in sport remains low, or that entry to sport is blocked on the way up, meaning they often don’t get the chance to make it to elite level. So I don’t think there are enough trans people in sport to scientifically study and say either way that they are or are not going to dominate. I am not saying that’s changed but we are beginning to turn that around a little bit. I can anticipate a lot more trans people coming through to be sportspeople now and in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Jambomo said: The only issue I have with your argument here is that until now, society has largely been very unforgiving and in some cases actively against trans people, making it difficult for them to transition or to thrive once they have done so. This has meant people either not transitioning at all, so the number of trans people in sport remains low, or that entry to sport is blocked on the way up, meaning they often don’t get the chance to make it to elite level. So I don’t think there are enough trans people in sport to scientifically study and say either way that they are or are not going to dominate. I am not saying that’s changed but we are beginning to turn that around a little bit. I can anticipate a lot more trans people coming through to be sportspeople now and in the future. Oh absolutely - as Welshy said a while back, if trans athletes were to get their own category then it'd be single athlete races because their number is so vanishingly small. I do know that Lia Thomas has lost a fair bit of time from her competing as male in her NCAA days prior to starting hormones, and on her current pace, isn't going to be a medal threat to Katie Ledecky etc. I tend to agree with Megan Rapinoe - start from a point of inclusion - and as the science and data points get better and more numerous, then build the framework for the increasing number of trans athletes from there. Edited July 2, 2022 by carpetmonster Lia Thomas not Lia Williams, derp 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Blades Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 25 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: How will the horse tell you it's transexual? Surely if it’s referred to as a nag, she identifies as female? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 20 minutes ago, Brother Blades said: Surely if it’s referred to as a nag, she identifies as female? Offer it a sugar lump and see if it tells you it’s watching its figure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth840 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 hour ago, carpetmonster said: I don't. There isn't nearly enough scientific basis as to how to include or exclude at the moment. For example Verity Smith - a trans man - plays wheelchair rugby on a mens team - a sport so physical it was known for years as 'murderball' and has just won the wheelchair Rugby League title with Leeds Rhinos wheelchair side. Caster Semenya is classed by the IOC as male for certain events and femaie for others so it seems the authorities don't have much of a clue either as yet. Transgender athletes have been allowed to compete at the Olympics since 2004 and only one has medaled thus far - a Canadian athlete in the womens' soccer team. If trans women should be dominant, by whatever logic, in women's sports, then they're making a dreadful go of it thus far. Why are you missing out the rest of DPB post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth840 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 hour ago, 101 said: You know there are cis women who can't have children right? Defining people by what they can and cant do seems a completely backward way to think about things. But the still have a womb. Womban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth840 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 51 minutes ago, Jambomo said: The only issue I have with your argument here is that until now, society has largely been very unforgiving and in some cases actively against trans people, making it difficult for them to transition or to thrive once they have done so. This has meant people either not transitioning at all, so the number of trans people in sport remains low, or that entry to sport is blocked on the way up, meaning they often don’t get the chance to make it to elite level. So I don’t think there are enough trans people in sport to scientifically study and say either way that they are or are not going to dominate. I am not saying that’s changed but we are beginning to turn that around a little bit. I can anticipate a lot more trans people coming through to be sportspeople now and in the future. I have no problem with people that are transitioning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kenneth840 said: Why are you missing out the rest of DPB post? Because it's ridiculous and @101 did point out the staringly obvious to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Kenneth840 said: But the still have a womb. Womban. You wouldn't claim that a woman who's had a hysterectomy is no longer a woman, would you? Edited July 2, 2022 by welshbairn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth840 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Sigh, This is ridiculous. Why are people intent on believing they are something they are most definitely not. Why the constant gaslighting of a population. I would like to have someone paying my energy bills. If I say to my energy provider I think you should be paying for it, will they? We can all dream up shit and hope it happens, but this false bullshit is taking it to another level. You do realise that you are being played by right wing capitalist pharma companies don't you? Read the Denton report? Just watched a blackbird in the garden, it was beautiful and its mate a brown blackbird seeking worms. You cannot change nature. I just witnessed part of the reproductive system of nature. You cannot change that, like you can't change the weather. It is absurd to believe so. Male = Penis (creating sperm) Female = Vagina/womb (creating eggs) It is biological fact. You cannot change it just because you say so. If people have problems with their identity they should seek psychiatric help. -9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Kenneth840 said: Sigh, This is ridiculous. Why are people intent on believing they are something they are most definitely not. Why the constant gaslighting of a population. I would like to have someone paying my energy bills. If I say to my energy provider I think you should be paying for it, will they? Just watched a blackbird in the garden, it was beautiful and its mate a brown blackbird seeking worms. You cannot change nature. I just witnessed part of the reproductive system of nature. You cannot change that, like you can't change the weather. It is absurd to believe so. Male = Penis (creating sperm) It is biological fact. You cannot change it just because you say so. If people have problems with their identity they should seek psychiatric help. Transgender people aren't freed from financial obligation. If the penis creating sperm is a biological fact then I *really* wasn't paying attention in spud science. Identity issues that need psychiatric help probably fits in with Sarge pointing it it's Orange Walk season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth840 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 9 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: Transgender people aren't freed from financial obligation. If the penis creating sperm is a biological fact then I *really* wasn't paying attention in spud science. Identity issues that need psychiatric help probably fits in with Sarge pointing it it's Orange Walk season. Don't know what you are on about regarding "freed from financial obligation", neither do I particularly care. Yeah you are correct there, I should have mentioned testicles crating sperm. Still a transman won't be able to do that? Can a transwoman create eggs? Don't know or care what your "Sarge" thinks. You cannot change biological fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 minute ago, oaksoft said: If it's not rocket science, you'll have no problem explaining what that actually means. The question is very simple and it's interesting that it's provoking insults from some and circular arguments like yours here. It's always a sign that those answering haven't the faintest idea what they are talking about. You're at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Kenneth840 said: Don't know what you are on about regarding "freed from financial obligation", neither do I particularly care. Yeah you are correct there, I should have mentioned testicles crating sperm. Still a transman won't be able to do that? Can a transwoman create eggs? Don't know or care what your "Sarge" thinks. You cannot change biological fact. You were wittering on about something to do with electricity bills. No, a trans woman cannot create eggs. Many cis women cannot create eggs. It was a page back. My brother used have tonsils, and now he doesn't. His biological facts have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth840 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: If it's not rocket science, you'll have no problem explaining what that actually means. The question is very simple and it's interesting that it's provoking insults from some and circular arguments like yours here. It's always a sign that those answering haven't the faintest idea what they are talking about. Well I am male, have a penis. Guess that gives me some idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth840 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Just now, carpetmonster said: You were wittering on about something to do with electricity bills. No, a trans woman cannot create eggs. Many cis women cannot create eggs. It was a page back. My brother used have tonsils, and now he doesn't. His biological facts have changed. But he is still male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Kenneth840 said: But he is still male. How do you know? Maybe he's my sister but I'm a raging transphobe and refuse to acknowledge that. Edited July 2, 2022 by carpetmonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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