Ric Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 It's not a new idea, in fact Murdo Fraser campaigned on it a decade ago, but it's certainly been brought into sharp contrast recently with Mogg's brutal assassination of wee Doogie. The problem is, at least as I see it, if they mange to become more than a branch office, of a party that cares little about this country, then it undermines a core tenet of their unionism. Maybe there will be a split from the Scottish Conservatives with a 2nd party being created, sitting to the centre right. We've seen from Alba this doesn't really help in general, albeit there is some possible benefit in regard to the way the Holyrood elections work. The concern any tories must have would be two fold, one would be splitting the vote and the other being a very easy target for the nutjobs. Let's be honest here, many SNP supporters are glad Alba turned up because it provided a location to offload their crazies, and it certainly did that. The difference is while the SNP is in a position of political dominance and can happily 'cast off' the 'less balanced' amongst their support to a holding cell as it were, any 2nd centre right party will be needing their representatives to appeal to a much broader section of society and be considered a valued partner of any remaining official Scottish Conservative Those on the extremes rarely make good headlines, and we've seen that from the Alba intake, and we all know the inhertent problem when a centre right party leans into the extremes of it's party, such as Brexit/UKIP/ERG and those views are simply not compatible with an equitable society, at least not in Scotland. I mean if the Scottish tories actually want to win in Scotland, the answer is simple, allow an independence vote. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Let’s be serious the Tories up here starting it’s own party it would still very much be under London control Besides, Tories in Scotland are meant to be unionists, nothing says confidence in the union than become a group of separatists to get away from your toxic colleagues across the border 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/16/scotland-tory-party-will-thrive-is-boris-johnson-and-england-are-jettisoned?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 No. They are supported entirely by handouts from England and so couldn’t afford to go it alone. They’re too small to be sustainable as their own party anyway. If they split, Russian agents would infiltrate their ranks, followed by aliens. They wouldn’t be allowed to serve hearty British food at their party conferences, and the UK party would refuse to recognise them anyway, making them a pariah party. The subservient Scottish Tories and the superior Johnson and co are just plain better together. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Florentine_Pogen said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/16/scotland-tory-party-will-thrive-is-boris-johnson-and-england-are-jettisoned?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other "Scotland’s a conservative country." I have no idea why Ascherson should lead with such a clickbait title without providing any context, and he does not expand on that claim in the article either other than this in the epilogue... "The tantalising fact is that Scotland is in many ways a “conservative” – with a small c – society. The SNP’s faith that the Scots are naturally social-democratic is questioned by widespread values that are often repressive rather than liberal." No actual evidence, his stance is backed up because, anecdotally, he heard someone say something one time. Is there a wider debate to be had regarding the vitriolic attitude and lack of progressive policies within those who support the union? Sure, he's not doing that here though. It should be said Ascherson is an independence supporter (or at least voted Yes in 2014) but that piece is 1 part clickbait title and 3 parts a painfully obvious fluff piece clearly aimed for the ignorant amongst our Southern cousins. Edited January 16, 2022 by Ric 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Couldn't the Scottish Tories just split from the rest of us and go and live on an island somewhere. Normal island perhaps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share Posted January 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, tamthebam said: Couldn't the Scottish Tories just split from the rest of us and go and live on an island somewhere. Normal island perhaps. I believe Gruinard is lovely this time of year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 "Scotland’s a conservative country." I have no idea why Ascherson should lead with such a clickbait title without providing any context, and he does not expand on that claim in the article either other than this in the epilogue... "The tantalising fact is that Scotland is in many ways a “conservative” – with a small c – society. The SNP’s faith that the Scots are naturally social-democratic is questioned by widespread values that are often repressive rather than liberal." No actual evidence, his stance is backed up because, anecdotally, he heard someone say something one time. Is there a wider debate to be had regarding the vitriolic attitude and lack of progressive policies within those who support the union? Sure, he's not doing that here though. It should be said Ascherson is an independence supporter (or at least voted Yes in 2014) but that piece is 1 part clickbait title and 3 parts a painfully obvious fluff piece clearly aimed for the ignorant amongst our Southern cousins. He’s also confusing Conservative with conservativeSmall c conservatism is literally a resistance to change. It’s opposed big C Conservative radical ideas like brexit and privatising the NHS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Noubissie Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 It won't happen. Alba had ideas (admittedly all completely mental) about various issues that they thought could pick off SNP voters with. The Scottish Tories becoming a proper political party would mean coming up with some policies relevant to the jurisdiction of the parliament they participate in. Seems like a bit of a hassle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG_03 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 47 minutes ago, Antlion said: No. They are supported entirely by handouts from England and so couldn’t afford to go it alone. They’re too small to be sustainable as their own party anyway. If they split, Russian agents would infiltrate their ranks, followed by aliens. They wouldn’t be allowed to serve hearty British food at their party conferences, and the UK party would refuse to recognise them anyway, making them a pariah party. The subservient Scottish Tories and the superior Johnson and co are just plain better together. They also wouldn't be allowed to spend British pounds or watch doctor who. Best to continue to be treated like shite, it's how things have always been. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share Posted January 16, 2022 44 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: He’s also confusing Conservative with conservative Small c conservatism is literally a resistance to change. It’s opposed big C Conservative radical ideas like brexit and privatising the NHS I think the piece was intended to be small 'c' but the (sub)editor didn't get the subtlety and so the title contains it with a capital C. It's a title, so you expect capitalisation, in this instance though, and due to any possible confusion the big/small 'c' should be discussed at the start, not in the final paragraph. So in essence I think he knows the difference, just that the article itself is not entirely clear which point it's making. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 49 minutes ago, GTG_03 said: They also wouldn't be allowed to spend British pounds or watch doctor who. Best to continue to be treated like shite, it's how things have always been. Not to mention that the Northern Tories separating from the UK Tories would be spitting on the graves of all those honest British tommies who died in the trenches so that Douglas Ross could bow at the feet of Boris Johnson. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 50 minutes ago, GTG_03 said: They also wouldn't be allowed to spend British pounds or watch doctor who. Best to continue to be treated like shite, it's how things have always been. They'd lose their pensions too, and have no access to the NHS, don't forget. They'd end up a failed state...erm, party...like the SDP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Antlion said: No. They are supported entirely by handouts from England and so couldn’t afford to go it alone. They’re too small to be sustainable as their own party anyway. If they split, Russian agents would infiltrate their ranks, followed by aliens. They wouldn’t be allowed to serve hearty British food at their party conferences, and the UK party would refuse to recognise them anyway, making them a pariah party. The subservient Scottish Tories and the superior Johnson and co are just plain better together. Scottish Tories - too wee, too poor, too stupid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Scottish Tories - too wee, too poor, too stupid. Exhibit A: Edited January 16, 2022 by Antlion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share Posted January 16, 2022 12 minutes ago, Antlion said: Exhibit A: I remember in a debate, it was broadcast on TV during IndyRef, where Darling, who was one of the figureheads of Better Together, claimed the only way Scotland can guarantee their place in the EU is to remain part of the UK. The claim was made in the context that rUK would use their veto to block us (re)joining as an independent country. It's interesting when I discuss independence with those of a unionist bent the phrase "once in a generation" is put forward as the reason there shouldn't be another. When countered with Darling's quote, it seems the permanency is far more mutable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 If it did happen, it would allow the Tories up here to take no responsibility for what’s happening in Westminster I legit don’t think Tory HQ would be that bothered. They only need to win in England to win the UK Scotland will be similar to NI in that respect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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