54_and_counting Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 15 minutes ago, ropy said: One club has declared their voting decision. I am not against the 5 subs but extra subs solving a problem caused by Covid doesn’t really make sense to me, presumably the likelihood would be that Covid would restrict the number of options available? f**k all to do with covid, its to help clubs manage their squads in the event of a fixture pile up that may happen, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arabdownunder Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 13 hours ago, Bigmouth Strikes Again said: Hope it was us, yet again. Thank you. 8-3 with one abstention in that case. Email still in drafts folder. You're welcome 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Reese Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 6 hours ago, PauloPerth said: Do you mean the time hearts tried to push through reconstruction to save themselves, but were adamant that it would only be for that one season, as they didn't want to share income with more clubs in the top league than necessary the season afterwards? That kind of self-interest?? Let it go, mate. This level of angst ain't good for you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Saints were against it previously and given how shite our squad is, not a chance we’ve changed our mind!Stevie Grieve seemed to be massively in favour of it so maybe he's convinced your coaching staff and/or chairman of the merits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widge Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 21 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Stevie Grieve seemed to be massively in favour of it so maybe he's convinced your coaching staff and/or chairman of the merits. Nah Callum Davidson doesn’t listen to anyone, no chance he’s changed his stance on in. He’s too bloody stubborn even if it was a good thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, tree house tam said: Five subs just let's the richer and those living outwith their means sides to change games in their favour if things aren't going well. Get it in the bin. Five subs should be great news for the clubs that don't have massive squads tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Wouldn't 5 substitutes actually favour clubs with smaller squads? Sevco, for instance, can run Roofe into the ground for a few weeks then afford to rest him completely knowing Wright or Sakala or whoever is quality enough to cover . On the flip side The Midden can't really afford to rest McGrath for a full 90 minutes but if they're a coupla goals up and cruising or, more likely, 3-0 down anyway, having the option to rotate from the bench means they can spread the toil of league games more evenly over a smaller squad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 I'm going to be honest here, I am not against 5 subs. Yes, it absolutely benefits the richest clubs with the best quality across the board, but let's be honest in the list of things that disadvantage "smaller" clubs I doubt this would even register. It does, hypothetically, give us a chance to blood youngsters that need game time at this level, and we have a few in our squad that need that. Whether that turns out to be the case is up to Goodwin, but the increase in the number of subs has given him that opportunity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 f**k all to do with covid, its to help clubs manage their squads in the event of a fixture pile up that may happen, Fixture pile ups can happen without Covid but they’re made more likely this season so “f**k all” might be an underestimate 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 58 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: Five subs should be great news for the clubs that don't have massive squads tbh. Aye, 15 minutes to go and your one up against the bigots and they put on five internationals when all you have on the bench is some under 20s that will make your 11 weaker is really really great right enough. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikethedee Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Not sure it's a good idea to give McPake two extra chances to make ridiculous substitutions.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Good wee article from last year explaining how the quality, and overall size, of the squad isn't a huge factor when it comes to extra subs but the drop in overall quality between them is a bigger factor. Football's five substitutes rule doesn't benefit the big clubs – and here's why | Football | The Guardian (eg: Celtic subbing Kyogo for that Greek jobber has a greater negative effect that St. Johnstone subbing one useless striker off for another) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 minute ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: Good wee article from last year explaining how the quality, and overall size, of the squad isn't a huge factor when it comes to extra subs but the drop in overall quality between them is a bigger factor. Football's five substitutes rule doesn't benefit the big clubs – and here's why | Football | The Guardian (eg: Celtic subbing Kyogo for that Greek jobber has a greater negative effect that St. Johnstone subbing one useless striker off for another) Interesting although the observation that teams near the top make less substitutions than those near the bottom might be explained by the fact that teams near the bottom, by definition, find themselves losing more often and are more inclined to use subs to try and change the game. The underlying logic is compelling though. Viewed this way @tree house tam's problem wouldn't be that the St Johnstone bench isn't anywhere near as strong as Celtic's it's that their subs aren't nearly as good as the St Johnstone Starting XI Again this all suits Hearts current squad which contains a relatively high number of players who are "good enough to start" but not many who are "simply too good to drop" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Reese Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Again this all suits Hearts current squad which contains a relatively high number of players who are "good enough to start" but not many who are "simply too good to drop" This is exactly where I am at. Woodburn, GMS, McKay and Ginnelly, specifically. We telegraphed to the league that the plan was to give our wide forwards/wingers an hour and then bring on fresh legs. Not a plan that gives you many options to deal with injuries or red cards though. I can see us using this rule quite well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, tree house tam said: Aye, 15 minutes to go and your one up against the bigots and they put on five internationals when all you have on the bench is some under 20s that will make your 11 weaker is really really great right enough. Didn't realise you play the bigots every week. That'll be why you're rock bottom pal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 So, 75% of the league's clubs vote in favour of reintroducing 5 substitutions yet this is portrayed as an old firm problem? Some folk are that desperate to be outraged at anything Rangers or Celtic they start losing basic comprehension skills. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 28 minutes ago, Kyle Reese said: This is exactly where I am at. Woodburn, GMS, McKay and Ginnelly, specifically. We telegraphed to the league that the plan was to give our wide forwards/wingers an hour and then bring on fresh legs. Not a plan that gives you many options to deal with injuries or red cards though. I can see us using this rule quite well. 5 subs means that you can keep a few to deal with emergencies like injuries and red cards so we should see teams making more tactical changes aside from splitting the workload for the wingers. If the back 3 is clearly not working then switching to a back 4 after 25 minutes is not longer the drastic course of action that it once was of course the opposition now have more scope to make a change in the remaining 65 minutes to counter your change but that just adds to the interest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 18 hours ago, Kyle Reese said: Personally I'm all for it, as it will give my own club an advantage over clubs with less strength in depth. You would have to assume that the clubs against it will be the ones with the least strength in depth. So that would be us 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 30 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: Didn't realise you play the bigots every week. That'll be why you're rock bottom pal. Some one plays them every week 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Interesting although the observation that teams near the top make less substitutions than those near the bottom might be explained by the fact that teams near the bottom, by definition, find themselves losing more often and are more inclined to use subs to try and change the game. The underlying logic is compelling though. It does also ignore the possibilities of having options from the bench which a bigger team may be more likely to have. At Celtic, for instance, Forrest might not be as good as Turnbull but if Celtic are having no joy through the middle he's a tactical option. Smaller squads will have less quality across positions like that. I just don't think the extra subs is a huge game changer in either direction 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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