Nutjob anti-vaxxer arrested.

[carpetmonster]

37 minutes ago, AlbionSaint said:

Is it selfish to refuse to take a vaccine which, rightly or wrongly, you believe may cause you harm? Or at least believe that potential the risk of harm isn't worth the alleged benefits it brings? Is that selfish?

What is unambiguously immoral, is forcibly injecting the vaccine into someone against their will. 

The ruling elite have done a lot of bad things in the past, like shooting men who refused to run into volleys of machine gun fire. Or confiscating harvests from starving Irish peasants. Or serfdom and slavery. Surely people have the right not to trust their current mouthpiece when he says it's fine to take it? Or any of the other bought-and-paid-for lackeys of the powers that be.

Next time just write ‘galaxy-brained horseshite’ in all caps and it’ll save you some typing time m9. 

[carpetmonster]

5 minutes ago, AlbionSaint said:

 

Aye, I still know him. He's alive, but it was a frightening experience for him.

 

ETA:

@carpetmonster - what's ‘galaxy-brained horseshite’? Less of the ad hominem. Try making a point. If you're either too stupid or lack the time to do so, then do us both a favour and don't bother replying.  

Your post was. 
 

That wasn’t ad hominem. 
 

Away and f**k yourself. 

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, AlbionSaint said:

 

Oh dear!  It must be tough being you, you have my sympathy. Genuinely.

Having to share bandwidth with someone who doesn’t know what ‘ad hominem’ means is tough, yeah. Thanks mate, means a lot. 

[carpetmonster]

I said ‘galaxy brained horseshitE’, please don’t misquote me.

[velo army]

16 minutes ago, AlbionSaint said:

Stating someone has written 'galaxy-brained horseshit' is an attack on the author. You didn't attempt to answer any of the four questions I posed. Instead you stated that I am 'galaxy-brained', whatever that means. Since you have told me to 'f**k myself', plus lamented sharing bandwidth with me. I believe I have been perfectly reasonable and tried to have an adult discussion on a forum in a civilised manner. The obvious conclusion is that this is displaced anger, you have other issues in your life or you're just an unpleasant person. I imagine life will be tough. You're welcome to reply, but I will be placing you on ignore. Good luck for the future, though.

Writing "galaxy brained horseshite" is a direct comment on the post. Its the very opposite of ad hominem. You may feel attacked, but it's not a direct attack on the author. I don't give much of a shit about any of this, but at least use Latin terms fucking correctly.

[welshbairn]

47 minutes ago, AlbionSaint said:

I believe I have been perfectly reasonable and tried to have an adult discussion on a forum in a civilised manner.

Jolly good. 147 thousand people in the UK had died with Covid so far, and without vaccination it would have been tens of thousands more. How many do you think have died because of side effects from vaccination?

P.S. The number I've found is 9.

Edited December 19, 2021 by welshbairn

[Empty It]

The sheer hypocrisy of pensioners screaming that children should be vaccinated purely to protect themselves.

[BFTD]

Fucking hell. Is this what the Coronavirus thread is like these days?

[Soapy FFC]

If true, this classifies as the work of nutjobs.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/19/anti-vaxxers-block-book-appointments-stop-people-getting-life/

 

[eez-eh]

3 hours ago, AlbionSaint said:

According to the statistics, maybe. However, those statistics include people who have died of other things but tested positive within 28 days of their death. That's 147,000 people over a period of approximately twenty-two months, then. My maths is a bit rubbish, but I make that around 80,000 deaths over a twelve year period...but remember that includes people who've died in a car crash but tested positive for Covid within 28 days.

 

In 1999/00 there were '48,000 excess winter flu deaths', i.e. over a three month period.(1)

 

 

How do you know it would be tens of thousands more? You have been told that, but where's the proof? 

 

Japan (pop. 125,912,415) is far more populous than the UK, hasn't had nearly as strict lockdowns and has had just 18,379 deaths. (2) 

Interestingly, there have been reports that Vietnam's Covid deaths were very low until they started vaccinating. (3)

 

I think there's room to be sceptical, especially given that it appears that the data is being manipulated. I agree with the lady in the video below, quite frankly:

 

 

(1) https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/highestnumberofexcesswinterdeathssince19992000/2015-11-25

(2) https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/japan/

(3) https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/viet-nam/

The mask is starting to slip here tbh.

I’m not making the case for compulsory vaccines, but just to play devil’s advocate - do you have the same laid back attitude towards parents who refuse to get their kids vaccinated against various diseases before sending them off to mix with other weans?

[Satoshi]

Anti vaxxers have been around for as long as vaccines, the modern day anti vaxxers would have been appaled at the small pox vaccine and surely refused to take it.

It was far riskier than any COVID vaccine, with the concepts of testing and quality control virtually non existent.

People should of course be allowed to refuse to take a vaccine, and spout publicly whatever nonsense they so desire. Unfortunately, their choice not only affects them but others - namely those whose immune systems are compromised and cannot take the vaccine (and of course the additional health care resources their decision leads to).

Businesses should be free to refuse admission to those who are not vaccinated (and have no clincal exceptions). Their views should be exposed as nonsensical and selfish when raised. But they are always going to exist, a world without vaccines would be a desperately worse place - anti vaxxers will be a vocal but small minority. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

Where on earth do we get them from?

[Satoshi]

Well it's quite obvious why being an anti vaxxer is back on the agenda now.

And disagree on your comment about people not caring before, most people (certainly most people I know) take all the vaccines offered to them at school without a second thought. The flu jab is optional and not open to all so a bit different, my work offered it so I always got it.

One of the most successful vaccines of recent times is the HPV vaccine which has significantly reduced rates of cervical cancer. Absolute maniacs opposed it (and some still do) because it might make teenager girls more promiscuous. So just stay quiet and let everyone figure it out for themselves is being complicit, if someone is being a selfish stupid c**t you can't really stop them - but you can certainly call them out on it.

A world without vaccines would be a much poorer world. It can't be reiterated enough.

[Billy Jean King]

Anti Vax is a perfectly reasonable personal stance however it appears Albion Saint is arguing Covid vaccines are not effective and doubting they have saved lives. That is patently nonsense.

By all means feel free to decide what you do or don't put into your body but don't twist that to a position of vaccines don't work !

[RH33]

3 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

Anti Vax is a perfectly reasonable personal stance however it appears Albion Saint is arguing Covid vaccines are not effective and doubting they have saved lives. That is patently nonsense.

By all means feel free to decide what you do or don't put into your body but don't twist that to a position of vaccines don't work !

My sons friend isn't vaccinated, her mum is Russian and us wary of it. I can understand why, on a cultural level she doesn't want it.

[eez-eh]

7 hours ago, AlbionSaint said:

Mask? That suggests you believe I'm being devious, or putting on a facade of some sort. 

I don't have kids of my own and have never thought about it, is my honest answer. If vaccines work, then surely it would only be the unvaccinated children who're at risk? If parents cannot choose whether or not to have their child vaccinated, well that implies the government can come along and forcibly vaccinate people's children against their wishes. Is that ethical? 

Since reading the testimonies of people who've healed their autoimmune illnesses through diet alone, whilst those who've relied on conventional western medicine have suffered and found their conditions have worsened, I'm beginning to think that Big Pharma really is a bit of a charlatan. An industry worth hundreds of billions of dollars (1) is going to suppress information and studies which demonstrate the effective healing power of diet, exercise and lifestyle changes.

I haven't researched vaccines, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're not as effective as they're claimed to be. An industry worth as much as Big Pharma can bribe, cheat, manipulate data and pretty much get away with a lot of stuff. 

 

(1) https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/pharmaceutical-manufacturing-market

The mask is slipping from saying “it’s their choice” to some borderline COVID denialism.

I already said I wasn’t asking for them to be compulsory. There’s a world of difference between that and desperately defending people making ill-advised decisions that have consequences beyond just themselves.

[Meldrew]

11 hours ago, oaksoft said:

 

Your body, your choice.

End of.

only half true, otherwise 300 people in the last 7 or 8 year wouldn't have needed to go Switzerland to end their life.

[Meldrew]

8 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Anti vaxxers have been around for as long as vaccines, the modern day anti vaxxers would have been appaled at the small pox vaccine and surely refused to take it.

It was far riskier than any COVID vaccine, with the concepts of testing and quality control virtually non existent.

People should of course be allowed to refuse to take a vaccine, and spout publicly whatever nonsense they so desire. Unfortunately, their choice not only affects them but others - namely those whose immune systems are compromised and cannot take the vaccine (and of course the additional health care resources their decision leads to).

Businesses should be free to refuse admission to those who are not vaccinated (and have no clincal exceptions). Their views should be exposed as nonsensical and selfish when raised. But they are always going to exist, a world without vaccines would be a desperately worse place - anti vaxxers will be a vocal but small minority. 

polio doesnt scare me, having good healthy working legs is way overrated.

[scottsdad]

The approach to vaccination early in 2021 was one of persuasion. The authorities tried to sell the vaccines to people as a safe and effective way to protect themselves and others from the virus. And the vast majority of the public signed up. 

There were always going to be those who were anti-vaccine. In 2020, before vaccines came along, there were people attacking 5G masts believing it caused Covid, or believing it was a hoax or a conspiracy. These same people railed against lockdown and (unsurprisingly) are against vaccination. That, plus a few people who believe that the side-effects of the vaccine are significant and the benefits marginal - possibly fuelled by social media. Not helped at all by Macron and Merkel with their comments about the AZ vaccine - they put off many people from taking a vaccine at all. I am certain that macron caused deaths by his words.

What I wholeheartedly disagree with are the moves to create a two-tier state between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Vaccine passports are against everything I believe in. No vaccine, no football - what is that all about? Countries around the world have started having lockdowns just for the unvaccinated. The press here likes to whip up sentiment against the unvaccinated. This is all counter productive and will just entrench the views that the anti-vaxxers have about the state. 

[Satoshi]

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

TBH, it's you who is being selfish. You want others to inject medicine against their wishes for your benefit and you're hiding behind a "it's for the imnuno-suppressed" argument which just looks utterly fake. Sorry but it just does. Flu has been killing the immuno-suppressed for decades but I don't recall you ever having a go at those not taking their flu vaccines.

It's a shame you can't see your own hypocrisy but those who continually try to inappropriately hold the moral high ground do tend to suffer from that illness.

Did you read my post at all? Both o f the points you raise above were directly addresed.

It would be foolish criticising people for not taking the flu vaccine given that it wasn't universally available, indeed it was considered selfish to be a healthy person taking it from someone who needed given there was usually limited supplies. So this is not at all similar to the COVID vaccine.

I also don't want others to inject against their wishes (whatever that means), if people don't want to take it that's their perogative. I would rather they did, given it's better for their health and the health of others but I certainly wouldn't advocate making them take it.

This is one of the few areas where the moral highground is quite obvious, it really is black and white. By refusing a vaccine you are increasing the risk of harm to yourself and uncessearily putting others at risk. You are increasing the chances of your hospitalisation (and that of others) which will further consume scarce resources. These are both facts, whether it sounds fake or not to you is irrelevant.

But you will never convince an anti vaxxer, they should keep doing what they are doing (and keep telling people about it). It will instantly identify them as a selfish and ignorant c**t which is useful info for those around them.