Air-da-ree v Kyoo Pee

[Hampden Diehard]

How many was that we had missing? Double figures?  Nonetheless, a particularly grim first half but certainly much better in the second.

Few pluses, but we did keep them out and played reasonably at the back, only losing to a cracker of a shot. Heraghty was assured in goal and Quitongo is back.

 

 

[Big Badger]

Can we stop pretending this was a team of young boys we had out please?

Fox, Kilday, Robson, Morrison, McHugh, Connell, Thomson, Gillespie and Davidson have all been first team regulars this season.

Only Longstaff, Gillies (played 30 minutes) and Heraghty (our best performer) can be described as fringe players. 

As insipid a performance as you’ll likely see from any team this season. Ellis isn’t the man - think it’s obvious at this stage.

[Hampden Diehard]

13 hours ago, Cosmic Joe said:

No other teams have faced these issues recently? 

It would be interesting to see what the rules are. Our pool was short for Montrose and we had at least one 16 year old on the bench last night. That's not a complaint; I'd prefer we played the game and gave the kids a run.

[AndyDD]

4 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said:

How many was that we had missing? Double figures?  Nonetheless, a particularly grim first half but certainly much better in the second.

Few pluses, but we did keep them out and played reasonably at the back, only losing to a cracker of a shot. Heraghty was assured in goal and Quitongo is back.

 

 

A big difference in composure on the ball in the second half, I thought. First half QP struggled to retain possession outside the opening 5 minutes. Second half they were significantly better in that regard, and seemed to have been instructed to get much closer to Airdrie when we had the ball. Made for a much more evenly balanced second half. 

Missing players notwithstanding, I was surprised to get through 90+ minutes without QP forcing Max Currie into a save. Expected more from McHugh and Connell (some particularly poor deliveries from Luca Connell, I thought). Jai Quitongo made a difference and I can see why QP supporters have been looking forward to his return. He'll get a lot of joy off teams like Clyde, Dumbarton, East Fife et al. Over eager at times, though; left the boot in more than once and was lucky not to get pulled up for his petulant wee dig at Easton. 

 

[Hampden Diehard]

8 minutes ago, Big Badger said:

Can we stop pretending this was a team of young boys we had out please?

Fox, Kilday, Robson, Morrison, McHugh, Connell, Thomson, Gillespie and Davidson have all been first team regulars this season.

A decent point, but I think a big part of our problem is that we don't have a team that picks itself. A successful team is essentially the same 13 or 14, including a strong spine and demon goalscorer. Grant ran the defence last year and we were expecting the goals to be tumbling in via Murray. We do have a good pool and should have been able to cope better last night but you couldn't see us scoring; we don't have a Longworth who could score out of nothing. 

[Hampden Diehard]

14 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

 Jai Quitongo made a difference....  was lucky not to get pulled up for his petulant wee dig at Easton. 

 

He was but, to be fair, Easton was a wee shite all night.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Hampden Diehard

[williebraveheart]

2 hours ago, I Zingari said:

Laurie Ellis inherited a squad of players pulled together to win the Division Two championship. It seems clear that former manager Ray McKinnon did not think that squad capable of repeating the success in Division One. Ellis has been handicapped by the loss of arguably last season's best two players - Peter Grant and Jai Quitongo. Also absent has been Will Baynham, who offers a real alternative up front. I think it only fair to judge Laurie Ellis when he has had the opportunity to put something more resembling his own team on the park. A mid-table position always seemed to me a likely outcome this season and that may well be where Queen's end up.  

I agree. Grant, Quitongo, and Baynham would have made a tremendous difference to that team this season. Also we must remember that it was club policy not to develop the first team this season. That is why Ray McKinnon left. Laurie was left to work with what he had inherited plus find some loanees. Carroll was known to us and is a great success. Smith has probably been a plus but unfortunately Longstaff and Thomson have not produced. I think Thomson goes back now and I would try and shunt Logstaff back as well and see if we can improve with two better signings. Brown was a great signing but Moore has been a disappointment. Great to have Jai back but without the services of Grant and Baynham we will not be firing on all cylinders. I think the subject of Full Time is somewhat overplayed. A part time McAllister, Megginson, and Goodwillie are immense assets to their teams. Play offs must be our aim but January off field activity will be the key. Let us judge Laurie at the end of the season once all the cards have fallen. 

[macclyde+]

1 hour ago, Hampden Diehard said:

He was but, to be fair, Easton was a wee shite all night.

Definitely a wee shite, but the type of player we'd all love in our team.

Big player for us until a horrible injury, the fact that even Bazza got the best of him says it all.

[an86]

Laurie Ellis inherited a decent side with a good budget, with probably the best facilities and infrastructure in the league. These are full-time professional footballers being paid very well for the level they’re playing at. The idea that he inherited anything other than something that should be comfortably within the top four is pretty far fetched.

It’s a tough league and any of our poor results taken in isolation could be accepted. You can pretty much drop points at any time. However, as a body of work, it is unbelievably poor. Is anyone seriously suggesting that a 30% win rate for a manager with the resources we have is acceptable?

I didn’t think we’d win the league. I did and still do expect us to finish in the top four. I can’t say I’m confident that Ellis will deliver this. How many have improved since we kicked off? How many have regressed? The latter outweighs the former by an enormous amount. Does anyone actually believe he’s going to be here long term? If not, why are we wasting his time and ours? Shake hands (or awkwardly chat over Teams or Zoom), thank the guy for his efforts and move on. It’s not working and I don’t believe anyone at the club can possibly think it is either. 
 

With the window opening, it’s a perfect time to get someone new in and let them bring a few bodies in. No faffing around. Do it now, give them the whole of January and give ourselves the best chance of being in the playoffs.

Edited December 30, 2021 by an86

[qpfc]

1 hour ago, an86 said:

Laurie Ellis inherited a decent side with a good budget, with probably the best facilities and infrastructure in the league. These are full-time professional footballers being paid very well for the level they’re playing at. The idea that he inherited anything other than something that should be comfortably within the top four is pretty far fetched.

It’s a tough league and any of our poor results taken in isolation could be accepted. You can pretty much drop points at any time. However, as a body of work, it is unbelievably poor. Is anyone seriously suggesting that a 30% win rate for a manager with the resources we have is acceptable?

I didn’t think we’d win the league. I did and still do expect us to finish in the top four. I can’t say I’m confident that Ellis will deliver this. How many have improved since we kicked off? How many have regressed? The latter outweighs the former by an enormous amount. Does anyone actually believe he’s going to be here long term? If not, why are we wasting his time and ours? Shake hands (or awkwardly chat over Teams or Zoom), thank the guy for his efforts and move on. It’s not working and I don’t believe anyone at the club can possibly think it is either. 
 

With the window opening, it’s a perfect time to get someone new in and let them bring a few bodies in. No faffing around. Do it now, give them the whole of January and give ourselves the best chance of being in the playoffs.

Completely agree with all of that. Far too many players have regressed over the season. The likes of Doyle, Robson, Gillespie, Kilday and Murray are getting worse by the week and that’s got to come down to the management at the end of the day. The names mentioned are all experienced pros where the majority have played and had success playing in the divisions above. They should be more than capable of coping with demands of league 1. I would say the only players that have  kicked on this season would be Longridge and Morrison? 

Ellis has one style of play and it was found out straight away after we played Falkirk in august. How many times have we heard opposition fans mention that we’re a tidy team but ultimately there’s no punch to our side to get the consistent wins. Teams are totally fine with us having the ball majority of time and it’s telling cause whenever we play against rigid set ups like Clyde, East Fife, Alloa and even Airdrie the first couple times, we’ve quite simply not been able to beat any of those teams. Ellis has been unable to adapt to the opposition far too many times and ultimately its drained the confidence of many players and now I’m very uncertain we’ll make the play offs at this rate. I think if Falkirk weren’t having such a shambolic season, scrutiny would be placed on the team a hell of a lot more. 
 

Now is the perfect time for Dempster to cut her losses and admit she made a mistake with the appointment of Ellis. Get someone in with the relevant and necessary experience of managing a team aiming for promotion so we can sign the right players next month. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by qpfc

[Dooflick]

17 hours ago, Charliechurch said:

Arguably the biggest budget?

Haughey is paying 50% of Connell's reported £5k a week wages alone.

QP's wage bill must be similar to Motherwell's or St Mirren's.

 

 

Come on Charlie how do you know this?

[Dooflick]

17 hours ago, QPSpider1867 said:

Cove will win the league. QP no where near it.

Totally acceptable by QP fans if we had a group of honest lads fighting for it…. but…

Wage budget does not match the pitch value. Players earning as much as their SPL contracts. That is a FACT and not up for debate (don’t question it if you don’t have a clue). 

Struggling to defend this group and Manager. Good luck in 2021. 

I hope they have a burst of quality and unity but it’s so far away. I can’t see it coming. 

Back to the darts…

Like Charlie how do you know this re wges? Players on the same level as SPL, nonsense.

[Arachnophile]

17 hours ago, QPSpider1867 said:

 

Wage budget does not match the pitch value. Players earning as much as their SPL contracts. That is a FACT and not up for debate (don’t question it if you don’t have a clue). 

 

I don't have a clue & I'm questioning it.

Its very depressing how everyone seems to know our wage budget in great detail ... except me.

 

[Velvet Donkey]

12 minutes ago, Arachnophile said:

I don't have a clue & I'm questioning it.

Its very depressing how everyone seems to know our wage budget in great detail ... except me.

 

The source is ...., checks notes; CharlieChurch off Pie and Bovril.

[Bring Your Own Socks]

3 hours ago, williebraveheart said:

I agree. Grant, Quitongo, and Baynham would have made a tremendous difference to that team this season. Also we must remember that it was club policy not to develop the first team this season. That is why Ray McKinnon left. Laurie was left to work with what he had inherited plus find some loanees. Carroll was known to us and is a great success. Smith has probably been a plus but unfortunately Longstaff and Thomson have not produced. I think Thomson goes back now and I would try and shunt Logstaff back as well and see if we can improve with two better signings. Brown was a great signing but Moore has been a disappointment. Great to have Jai back but without the services of Grant and Baynham we will not be firing on all cylinders. I think the subject of Full Time is somewhat overplayed. A part time McAllister, Megginson, and Goodwillie are immense assets to their teams. Play offs must be our aim but January off field activity will be the key. Let us judge Laurie at the end of the season once all the cards have fallen. 

Precisely all of this, and I Zingari’s comment. You’ve raised a really interesting point about the part-timers. The change to the Articles two years ago simple allowed us to sign professionals. There’s nothing in the club rules, or the SPFL rules, that says all players have to be either full-time or part-time.  

Anyone posting to get Ellis out who was part of the AGM this month must have been eating their tea and watching Eastenders instead of watching the speakers. Never in the club’s history has the head coach addressed members but Laurie was invited and spoke well. I won’t repeat his words but it was crystal clear to me he knows the area of weakness and every effort will be made in January to improve the situation. The CEO also said similar. Both confirmed, as did the club President, that promotion is still very much the ambition this season. Couldn’t have been clearer. We’re still on target. 

What was, is, also crystal clear is that this is just part of a journey. Within months we’ll be trading youngsters with top European sides. Ellis has loanees currently from Scotland’s three biggest clubs plus Liverpool. He brought Liam Brown in, and a full season for Connel. He’s also trying to weave in some of our young prospects while still battling for a play-off. Not everything’s going to work out like a Disney script but at least we have a script. There’s no question some of the squad are out of time but that’s going to take a while to sort, thanks to professional contracts. If some players seem to be going backward I’d say it’s mostly down to a dawning acceptance that their football career is just months away from ending. Until then, those of us who lived through season 13-14 ought to be more forgiving about the present, and looking forward to what is coming in the future.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Bring Your Own Socks

[Bring Your Own Socks]

19 hours ago, Cosmic Joe said:

No other teams have faced these issues recently? 

 

5 hours ago, Hampden Diehard said:

It would be interesting to see what the rules are. Our pool was short for Montrose and we had at least one 16 year old on the bench last night. That's not a complaint; I'd prefer we played the game and gave the kids a run.

Unlike in England where each club lists their playing squad at the start of the season, in Scotland it relates to the number of professionals who are signed. Teams who operate on the professional pathway are effectively punished because 18 year olds kids on a professional contract are eligible to play in the first team whereas teams who don’t have a development squad, and thereby have fewer professionals, are more likely to not have a full playing squad. The eligibility is solely about a contract and takes no cognisance of age, skill level, match experience or physical readiness. 

[Velvet Donkey]

23 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

Precisely all of this, and I Zingari’s comment. You’ve raised a really interesting point about the part-timers. The change to the Articles two years ago simple allowed us to sign professionals. There’s nothing in the club rules, or the SPFL rules, that says all players have to be either full-time or part-time.  

Anyone posting to get Ellis out who was part of the AGM this month must have been eating their tea and watching Eastenders instead of watching the speakers. Never in the club’s history has the head coach addressed members but Laurie was invited and spoke well. I won’t repeat his words but it was crystal clear to me he knows the area of weakness and every effort will be made in January to improve the situation. The CEO also said similar. Both confirmed, as did the club President, that promotion is still very much the ambition this season. Couldn’t have been clearer. We’re still on target. 

What was, is, also crystal clear is that this is just part of a journey. Within months we’ll be trading youngsters with top European sides. Ellis has loanees currently from Scotland’s three biggest clubs plus Liverpool. He brought Liam Brown in, and a full season for Connel. He’s also trying to weave in some of our young prospects while still battling for a play-off. Not everything’s going to work out like a Disney script but at least we have a script. There’s no question some of the squad are out of time but that’s going to take a while to sort, thanks to professional contracts. If some players seem to be going backward I’d say it’s mostly down to a dawning acceptance that their football career is just months away from ending. Until then, those of us who lived through season 13-14 ought to be more forgiving about the present, and looking forward to what is coming in the future.

Yes these are good points and worth remembering. I certainly didn't set my expectations any higher than where we are, and was happy to settle for a goodish season of building the foundations of a new club rather than promotion this season. Perhaps also it's impatience on my part, and I really don't want to turn on Ellis, but we have a talented and experienced team that likes to play out from the back, easy on the eye knocking it about, but really have looked painfully short of any threat up front all season, and quite a few 'stars' under-performing. The stats show our goal difference is very good, yet our win rate is very disappointing. If it's going to work out longer term then we need to see a real change in form. I don't believe Cove or Montrose have more resource at their current disposal than QP.

[Diamonds are Forever]

2 hours ago, qpfc said:

Completely agree with all of that. Far too many players have regressed over the season. The likes of Doyle, Robson, Gillespie, Kilday and Murray are getting worse by the week and that’s got to come down to the management at the end of the day. The names mentioned are all experienced pros where the majority have played and had success playing in the divisions above. They should be more than capable of coping with demands of league 1. I would say the only players that have  kicked on this season would be Longridge and Morrison? 

Ellis has one style of play and it was found out straight away after we played Falkirk in august. How many times have we heard opposition fans mention that we’re a tidy team but ultimately there’s no punch to our side to get the consistent wins. Teams are totally fine with us having the ball majority of time and it’s telling cause whenever we play against rigid set ups like Clyde, East Fife, Alloa and even Airdrie the first couple times, we’ve quite simply not been able to beat any of those teams. Ellis has been unable to adapt to the opposition far too many times and ultimately its drained the confidence of many players and now I’m very uncertain we’ll make the play offs at this rate. I think if Falkirk weren’t having such a shambolic season, scrutiny would be placed on the team a hell of a lot more. 
 

Now is the perfect time for Dempster to cut her losses and admit she made a mistake with the appointment of Ellis. Get someone in with the relevant and necessary experience of managing a team aiming for promotion so we can sign the right players next month. 

 

This is an interesting point and is something that, having watched us in this league for longer than I care to remember, I've seen year after year. If you look at successful teams in this league in recent years it's never about playing neat and tidy, possession based football. The last 4 league winning managers were McCall x2, McGlynn and Campbell. They are all about getting the ball forward quickly and doing whatever it takes to win, they couldn't be less interested in style of play. Teams that fancy themselves as good footballing sides do not tend to well unless they are exceptional for the level.

This is partly because the one thing that almost every side is comfortable doing in this league is sitting deep, watching teams pass it around in front of them and then defending when the ball is eventually played into the box. In the last couple of seasons Falkirk have been that side who like to pass the ball around while the opposition just sit back watching it and then break on them. This season, Cove can play nice football but they don't overplay, similar to Montrose. You'll not see either of them passing it around in their own third for 20-30 passes.

Even if you look at the game last night we had lots of possession in the first half, but our only chance came from a quick long ball through the defence for Easton. And our goal came from a great strike following a set piece. Our long periods of possession never amounted to anything, it's just not an efficient way of playing unless you are already winning and want to control the game. Each time I've seen QP this season this seems to be their problem. I think to do well in this league you need to leave any 'philosophies' or ideas about 'the right way to play' behind and work on being solid at the fundamentals - set pieces, solid defensively and getting the ball into the final 3rd as often as possible and playing from there.

[Mybitchunderprotest]

7 hours ago, Hampden Diehard said:

He was but, to be fair, Easton was a wee shite all night.

For having the temerity to dance past the QP players? I certainly didn't see him acting in a manner that would justify calling him a wee shite. I've not seen that from him all season in fact.

[Hampden Diehard]

4 hours ago, Arachnophile said:

I don't have a clue & I'm questioning it.

Its very depressing how everyone seems to know our wage budget in great detail ... except me.

 

Could be that people are talking pish???