ICTChris Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) New Zealand has introduced legislation today that aims to outlaw smoking completely in the country. Under the new laws, anyone aged 14 or under now will never be legally able to buy cigarettes or tobacco products. This will raise the minimum age to buy tobacco until it is effectively outlawed. Public health campaigners have welcomed the news, calling it a "game-changer" and world leading proposal. Others have been more cautious, pointing out that proposals to reduce nicotine in legally available cigarettes could hit poorer people hardest and the danger of black market tobacco proliferating - tobacco smuggling by organised crime has increased in recent years in New Zealand. There is also a disparity between smoking rates among European New Zealanders and the Maori and Pacific Islander communities, meaning that the latter communities will be hit harder by the measures. Would P&Bers agree with this approach to tobacco in this country? Are any P&Bers in New Zealand and worried about their 13 year old never being able to buy loads of ciggies? Would any P&Bers like to join me in setting up a huge illegal tobacco smuggling operation between here and Dunedin? Edited December 9, 2021 by ICTChris 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Has prohibition ever worked? 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, ICTChris said: New Zealand has introduced legislation today that aims to outlaw smoking completely in the country. Under the new laws, anyone aged 14 or under now will never be legally able to buy cigarettes or tobacco products. This will raise the minimum age to buy tobacco until it is effectively outlawed. Public health campaigners have welcomed the news, calling it a "game-changer" and world leading proposal. Others have been more cautious, pointing out that proposals to reduce nicotine in legally available cigarettes could hit poorer people hardest and the danger of black market tobacco proliferating - tobacco smuggling by organised crime has increased in recent years in New Zealand. There is also a disparity between smoking rates among European New Zealanders and the Maori and Pacific Islander communities, meaning that the latter communities will be hit harder by the measures. Would P&Bers agree with this approach to tobacco in this country? Are any P&Bers in New Zealand and worried about their 13 year old never being able to buy loads of ciggies? Would any P&Bers like to join me in setting up a huge illegal tobacco smuggling operation between here and Dunedin? I don't agree with an outright ban here - partly because I enjoy a very occasional tab with a drink, but also because it would be expensive and difficult to enforce. That said, it would be hilarious to see the same arseholes who were making up shite about driving to Carlisle to buy cheaper Frosty Jack making up similar stories of daring border crossings to buy 40 Lambert and Butler. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 If Science had anything about it we'd able to buy cheap, healthy cigarettes that are exactly like the experience of smoking the death sticks that the golden age of cinema glorified so beautifully. If I could make some sort of Faustian pact I'd swap mobile phones and the internet for healthy fags. Society would be redeemed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empty It Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 I agree with the incentive and smoking is something that should be phased out as a society but making it illegal just pushes it into the black market undoubtedly giving a massive opportunity for criminals to rake it in. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Ross. said: Has prohibition ever worked? I guess it depends on the nature of what you are prohibiting. One thing that always strikes me about smoking and it's probably just a sign of me getting old, is the big shift in society that I've seen in my lifetime. I can remember people smoking on aeroplanes, people smoking in offices, everyone smoked in their house and let visitors smoke in theirs. Every social space had people smoking - bars, restaurants, cafes, football grounds. Within the space of a few years that's completely changed. My dad smoked when I was a kid and he smoked in the house and no-one thought a single thing of it, it was completely normal. Everyone had ashtrays in their house for guests who smoked, no-one thought anything of smoking in someone elses house. I saw a report the other day that tracked a significant fall in childhood asthma in the last 15-20 years, while there are obviously multiple factors I'd bet that not being in houses filled with smoke is a significant benefit to kids. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Children should be outside so that argument is redundant. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, Ross. said: Has prohibition ever worked? I reckon Saudi Arabia has fairly low alcoholism rates. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Ferguson's Hat Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 It truly is the most boring country on earth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ICTChris said: I guess it depends on the nature of what you are prohibiting. One thing that always strikes me about smoking and it's probably just a sign of me getting old, is the big shift in society that I've seen in my lifetime. I can remember people smoking on aeroplanes, people smoking in offices, everyone smoked in their house and let visitors smoke in theirs. Every social space had people smoking - bars, restaurants, cafes, football grounds. Within the space of a few years that's completely changed. My dad smoked when I was a kid and he smoked in the house and no-one thought a single thing of it, it was completely normal. Everyone had ashtrays in their house for guests who smoked, no-one thought anything of smoking in someone elses house. I saw a report the other day that tracked a significant fall in childhood asthma in the last 15-20 years, while there are obviously multiple factors I'd bet that not being in houses filled with smoke is a significant benefit to kids. All of the above would suggest that existing policies and influencing social attitudes is proving successful in curbing the number of people who smoke. An outright ban isn’t needed when that is the case. You just continue to chip away at the numbers until it’s no longer profitable for the producers or problematic to the rest of us. 8 minutes ago, Small Bovine Maisonette said: I reckon Saudi Arabia has fairly low alcoholism rates. Fair point. New Zealand should adopt their “Do it and we’ll chop your fucking hands off” approach to this. Edited December 9, 2021 by Ross. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Horse pus is out of control. IMO. -11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 My uncle smoked from his teenage years and died of lung cancer in 2016. Despite this, I would not be in favour of this. Give people education, information and a choice. All you'll do is feed the black market - and that's not some flash harry character selling fags, that'll be a new revenue stream for organised crime. We've done loads. The social changes that @ICTChris mentions are massive. Compared to my uncle's time, teens nowadays are far, far, far less likely to take up smoking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, ICTChris said: I guess it depends on the nature of what you are prohibiting. One thing that always strikes me about smoking and it's probably just a sign of me getting old, is the big shift in society that I've seen in my lifetime. I can remember people smoking on aeroplanes, people smoking in offices, everyone smoked in their house and let visitors smoke in theirs. Every social space had people smoking - bars, restaurants, cafes, football grounds. Within the space of a few years that's completely changed. My dad smoked when I was a kid and he smoked in the house and no-one thought a single thing of it, it was completely normal. Everyone had ashtrays in their house for guests who smoked, no-one thought anything of smoking in someone elses house. I saw a report the other day that tracked a significant fall in childhood asthma in the last 15-20 years, while there are obviously multiple factors I'd bet that not being in houses filled with smoke is a significant benefit to kids. Patients smoked in hospitals, the doctor smoked in his consulting room, I seem to recall my primary school headmaster smoking in the classroom, although I might be imagining that, and as you say in the last 20 odd years it's just gone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG_03 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, Barry Ferguson's Hat said: It truly is the most boring country on earth. It's really not. New Zealand is an incredible country and I'd go back in a heartbeat. However, I disagree with an outright ban. Will they be banning alcohol aswell? Educate and inform and let people make up their own minds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Ferguson's Hat Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, GTG_03 said: It's really not. New Zealand is an incredible country and I'd go back in a heartbeat. However, I disagree with an outright ban. Will they be banning alcohol aswell? Educate and inform and let people make up their own minds. I lived there for two years. This was a fixture my local team played in recently: Central Football v Southern United. Christ. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Steiner Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, scottsdad said: My uncle smoked from his teenage years and died of lung cancer in 2016. Despite this, I would not be in favour of this. Give people education, information and a choice. All you'll do is feed the black market - and that's not some flash harry character selling fags, that'll be a new revenue stream for organised crime. We've done loads. The social changes that @ICTChris mentions are massive. Compared to my uncle's time, teens nowadays are far, far, far less likely to take up smoking. Tend to agree with this, plus the black market fags will be laced with all sorts of nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 24 minutes ago, scottsdad said: Compared to my uncle's time, teens nowadays are far, far, far less likely to take up smoking. Vaping on the other hand seems to be growing, which having never vaped I assume is basically a massive nicotine hit, is it bad for you other than being highly addictive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Being serious for a moment. The tobacco companies seem to realise that they don't have much future in advanced economies and are keen to end smoking in western Europe, Australia and New Zealand so that they can keep operating in the global south and not have to worry too much about being legislated against. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, 101 said: is it bad for you other than being highly addictive. Aye it makes you look like a gimp. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Can we ban people from becoming disgusting fatties? -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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