Wasps v Bully Wee

[Waspie]

8 minutes ago, Greenmachine said:

From what I saw with Clyde they’d be mid table in the WoSFL Premier with that team at best.

Goodwille hardly touched the ball at Clydebank he was rank rotten.

It wasn’t like an up and at em cup tie at all,Clydebank were just better.It was on a good 3G pitch so you can’t even make the pitch as an excuse.

I didn't suggest the pitch was a factor at all. And if Goodwillie had an off day then fair enough, he clearly wasn't alone, but everyone knows that as a footballer he is way too good for League 1, nevermind anything below. 

There are plenty examples of players dropping down below their natural level for money (see Kelty and Darvel), perhaps they had bad luck with injury etc, or it might just suit them for personal reasons. Or in the case of the aforementioned Goodwillie, for far more unpleasant reasons. But in general, players end up around their natural level. Lower ranked teams springing cup upsets doesn't change that. 

[FREDDYFRY]

We are not very good at all and as mentioned before were unbelievably bad on that day. Even worse in fact that any of us thought we could be. However I don’t think one game can give a judgment on the standard of a league.

Remember when he hammered Celtic in the cup it honestly could have easily been 4-1. However no Clyde fan would think that if we played Celtic another 10 times that season we would win or indeed beat any other premier league side consistently.

Edited December 13, 2021 by FREDDYFRY

[BullyWeeStonehouse]

1 hour ago, Greenmachine said:

From what I saw with Clyde they’d be mid table in the WoSFL Premier with that team at best.

Goodwille hardly touched the ball at Clydebank he was rank rotten.

It wasn’t like an up and at em cup tie at all,Clydebank were just better.It was on a good 3G pitch so you can’t even make the pitch as an excuse.

There’s no such thing as a good 3G pitch.

And nobody has tried to use the pitch as an excuse since that game so don’t know why you’re making that point.

We were shite on the day but we are still a mid table league 1 club and you’re a WoSL one. Enjoy the rest of your season.

Edited December 13, 2021 by BullyWeeStonehouse

[Father Barrys Sign (Top Half)]

Going back to the game, and off this one off cup match somehow being a barometer (which I also think is nonsense)- We didnt actually play all that badly in the first half. Created enough chances to take control of the game. Unfortunately didnt convert any, and paid the price for that once Clyde went ahead. The Clyde goal was a cracker, and I guess the alarm bells ring from the fact that we didnt really look like equalising at all after the goal.

The midfield isnt working as a sum of its parts just now, and it needs fixed. Our two best midfielders are played far too wide and we need them more involved. Im all for having width when attacking and using the full pitch, but I dont think Scougall and Cawley are as influential as they could be. Central midfield is where we need more right now.

I felt we dwelled way too long before making changes, and Id have hooked Sena for Sammon rather than Boyd. Youre obviously playing long to Sammon, bypassing centre midfield and then you have Boyd and Cawley picking up second balls. Probably a bit more risk and leaves gaps for the counter attack- but thats my take on it.

The way our season is going, we'll probably do okay up at Cove next week. Waspies point is spot on that we seem to play better against teams above us in the table- which I guess bodes well because there are more and more teams above us as the weeks pass. 

[Greenmachine]

58 minutes ago, BullyWeeStonehouse said:

There’s no such thing as a good 3G pitch.

And nobody has tried to use the pitch as an excuse since that game so don’t know why you’re making that point.

We were shite on the day but we are still a mid table league 1 club and you’re a WoSL one. Enjoy the rest of your season.

Lennon mentioned the size of the pitch post match which was ludicrous.

I can only go by what I’ve seen and the game should’ve finished 3 or 4 to Clydebank.

im not a Bankies fan but have attended their games against Elgin and Clyde as well as a couple of their league games.

Cup ties are sometimes skewed by poor pitches but that wasn’t the case is all I’m saying.Clydebank were just the better team with better players.
Looking at Clyde’s results either side of the cup tie they’ve been getting results in League 1 which says something about the standard.

[Brian Carrigan]

If Alan Trouten is indeed out of favour at Alloa, Danny Lennon should be bursting his hoop to get him signed up to play in behind Goodwillie. Same with the other Alloa legends, I'd take any of them at this point I think.

[BFTD]

The most depressing part of this season has to be the idea of Clyde poaching our best players because the manager's fallen out with them.

[Brian Carrigan]

1 minute ago, Greenmachine said:

Cup ties are sometimes skewed by poor pitches but that wasn’t the case is all I’m saying.Clydebank were just the better team with better players.
Looking at Clyde’s results either side of the cup tie they’ve been getting results in League 1 which says something about the standard.

Clyde, for whatever reason, were absolutely atrocious against Clydebank. It's the worst I've seen a Clyde team perform in a very long time.

I've also been following Clydebank for a while, and whilst they are a good team, the players aren't 'better' than Clyde players.

It was a mix of Clydebank being absolutely bang up for it, and Clyde being in the middle of an absolute malaise. Not taking into account the results of the games, the performances have been wretched. Make no mistake, the reason we've gotten any results around the Clydebank game is because Goodwillie has sprung into life.

Saying that the standard of the WoSFL is similar to L1 is baffling and just shows what you get when someone who supports one of the arsecheeks tries to comment on the lower leagues.

[Vegetableman]

7 minutes ago, Brian Carrigan said:

If Alan Trouten is indeed out of favour at Alloa, Danny Lennon should be bursting his hoop to get him signed up to play in behind Goodwillie. Same with the other Alloa legends, I'd take any of them at this point I think.

Cue danny taking a holiday , or has he learnt his lesson ?

[Clyde01]

Lennon mentioned the size of the pitch post match which was ludicrous.
I can only go by what I’ve seen and the game should’ve finished 3 or 4 to Clydebank.
im not a Bankies fan but have attended their games against Elgin and Clyde as well as a couple of their league games.
Cup ties are sometimes skewed by poor pitches but that wasn’t the case is all I’m saying.Clydebank were just the better team with better players.
Looking at Clyde’s results either side of the cup tie they’ve been getting results in League 1 which says something about the standard.

As someone else mentioned when Clyde beat Celtic in the Scottish cup it was 2-1 going on 4 or 5. I couldn’t believe not just the result but how much we dominated them. We were a mid to lower championship team at the time and got bodied 4-0 off Gretna in the next round. Think you are trying to read too much into the result. There is a massive gulf from League 1 to the west of Scotland league. Darvel weren’t particularly impressive against Brechin for example.

[Brian Carrigan]

31 minutes ago, Vegetableman said:

Cue danny taking a holiday , or has he learnt his lesson ?

If our summer signings are anything to go by, he has not

[Wee wasp]

1 hour ago, Brian Carrigan said:

If Alan Trouten is indeed out of favour at Alloa, Danny Lennon should be bursting his hoop to get him signed up to play in behind Goodwillie. Same with the other Alloa legends, I'd take any of them at this point I think.

Thats where I'd be playing him instead of senna for alloa, he's very good at finding space and linking up well and makes decent runs into the box, Barrys got Henderson playing up front on his own but his work rate is not good enough to do that and needs someone round about him, that is one of the reasons I don't think he'll make it at hearts or that level unless he changes that, 

 

 

[Greenmachine]

1 hour ago, Clyde01 said:

As someone else mentioned when Clyde beat Celtic in the Scottish cup it was 2-1 going on 4 or 5. I couldn’t believe not just the result but how much we dominated them. We were a mid to lower championship team at the time and got bodied 4-0 off Gretna in the next round. Think you are trying to read too much into the result. There is a massive gulf from League 1 to the west of Scotland league. Darvel weren’t particularly impressive against Brechin for example.

If there was a massive gulf you wouldn’t have been easily beaten! Clydebank also knocked Elgin out on their own patch.

Darvel will knock Brechin out and don’t forget that Talbot knocked championship club Hamilton out having done the same thing to Ayr Utd before.

To suggest there is some sort of gulf between what is essentially the same thing of part time players training 2 nights a week is laughable.

I’ve only started watching Clydebank recently as I said but the standard is higher than people think and it’s showing up as more teams from that level get to play SPFL teams.

[Bullyweeno1]

2 hours ago, Greenmachine said:

Lennon mentioned the size of the pitch post match which was ludicrous.

I can only go by what I’ve seen and the game should’ve finished 3 or 4 to Clydebank.

im not a Bankies fan but have attended their games against Elgin and Clyde as well as a couple of their league games.

Cup ties are sometimes skewed by poor pitches but that wasn’t the case is all I’m saying.Clydebank were just the better team with better players.
Looking at Clyde’s results either side of the cup tie they’ve been getting results in League 1 which says something about the standard.

The pitch was quite tight but not an excuse.

Yes agree.  Both teams were rotten the first 30 minutes then Clydebank took control of the game and 3 or 4 wouldnt have flattered them.

However as others have said we have a poor squad this year and have been hopeless all season and basically rely on Goodwillie most weeks as he is the top scorer in Scotland.  If DGW has an off day, which he did against Clydebank, then effectively we will struggle to create anything.

Before Saturday we were 1 win in 10, so hardly pulling up the daisies in L1 but game against Clydebank was by far our worst this season in a season that has seen plenty of poor performances.

There probably isnt that much of a difference between lower half of L1 and WofSL.  Players will be part time, train twice a week and probably will be as fit as each other.  There is a lot of WofSL players who could play at a higher level but dont mainly due to money being thrown about at that level.

Although 3 leagues apart I wasnt surprised that Clydebank beat us on the day as it wouldnt have taken them much to do so if werent on our game which we clearly werent.

There is a massive gulf in class between L1 and Championship and and even bigger gap up to Premier League I would say.

[Kevchenko]

23 minutes ago, Greenmachine said:

If there was a massive gulf you wouldn’t have been easily beaten! Clydebank also knocked Elgin out on their own patch.

Darvel will knock Brechin out and don’t forget that Talbot knocked championship club Hamilton out having done the same thing to Ayr Utd before.

To suggest there is some sort of gulf between what is essentially the same thing of part time players training 2 nights a week is laughable.

I’ve only started watching Clydebank recently as I said but the standard is higher than people think and it’s showing up as more teams from that level get to play SPFL teams.

By your logic then, the fact we beat Bonnyrigg so comfortably would suggest there is actually a huge gap?!

 

Any team can win a one off game but I would suggest you would see a different outcome over the course of a season - Celtic/The Rangers lose occasional games during a season but finish top 2, we beat Hearts last season while being relegated from the Championship - odd games don’t exactly paint a story of what a full season looks like, and as pointed out, teams usual find their natural place. 
 

As much as the part time players at different levels may similarly train a couple of times a week and play at the weekend, certainly from the Bonnyrigg game there was a huge difference in the level of ‘athletes’ on display - Some of the Bonnyrigg players were particularly rotund!

[CM.]

22 minutes ago, Kevchenko said:

As much as the part time players at different levels may similarly train a couple of times a week and play at the weekend, certainly from the Bonnyrigg game there was a huge difference in the level of ‘athletes’ on display - Some of the Bonnyrigg players were particularly rotund!

Couple of the Clydebank players were in questionable shape but they didn't seem to have much problem against us!

I can see the debate from both sides here. I think with the pyramid open, in say a decades time (sooner if the pyramids open further) the leagues will look a bit different with more sides in their "natural" place thus cup "shocks" not being as shocking as they may seem with the current gaps between divisions. To throw a spanner in the works I expected us to beat Clydebank but with our current squad I don't think we'd win the WOSFL Premier over the course of the season even with Goodwillie. I do think Clydebank would finish bottom of our division but they'd compete, pick up a few wins and not finish absolutely miles behind like a Brechin in the Championship recently or Shire in League 2 in their tenner a week days.

Edited December 13, 2021 by C. Muir

[Waspie]

I remember Alloa holding the Celtic team which went unbeaten all season for 83 minutes at Parkhead. Had the ref not bottled sending off Craig Gordon in the first half who knows, we might even have won. Indeed, we'd already beaten two Premier League sides in previous rounds. By greenmachine's logic, that shows there was no significant difference between League 1 and the Premier League. Gutted we didn't win the treble . 

 

[Vegetableman]

18 minutes ago, Waspie said:

I remember Alloa holding the Celtic team which went unbeaten all season for 83 minutes at Parkhead. Had the ref not bottled sending off Craig Gordon in the first half who knows, we might even have won. Indeed, we'd already beaten two Premier League sides in previous rounds. By greenmachine's logic, that shows there was no significant difference between League 1 and the Premier League. Gutted we didn't win the treble . 

 

At a time when they were taking 4 or 5 off premier league sides regularly too .

[Scotchpie]

On 13/12/2021 at 17:28, Clyde01 said:

As someone else mentioned when Clyde beat Celtic in the Scottish cup it was 2-1 going on 4 or 5. I couldn’t believe not just the result but how much we dominated them. We were a mid to lower championship team at the time and got bodied 4-0 off Gretna in the next round. Think you are trying to read too much into the result. There is a massive gulf from League 1 to the west of Scotland league. Darvel weren’t particularly impressive against Brechin for example.

In fairness was 4-0 not a replay during which a force nine gale happened. First time I've ever seen our goalie put a goal kick out for a corner!

[Father Barrys Sign (Top Half)]

17 hours ago, Waspie said:

I remember Alloa holding the Celtic team which went unbeaten all season for 83 minutes at Parkhead. Had the ref not bottled sending off Craig Gordon in the first half who knows, we might even have won. Indeed, we'd already beaten two Premier League sides in previous rounds. By greenmachine's logic, that shows there was no significant difference between League 1 and the Premier League. Gutted we didn't win the treble . 

 

Dont forget though that in turn we lost to Edinburgh City in the Challenge Cup. So taking all this into account, Edinburgh City could surely have made it into the Champions League qualifiers on that basis/logic and also destroyed the Celtic "invincibles" tag.