SC 4th Round: Motherwell Vs Morton...... Again

[Yorky]

5 hours ago, TONTROOPER said:

........and then again........you're a dick.

Morton fans are just sooooo strange. Thank goodness we don’t see this from the supporters of the premiership clubs. I wish you well.

[Yorky]

7 hours ago, scmwell said:

Heard we were hit by a covid outbreak around the time of the winter break maybe slattery was one of the players effected.

Oh he certainly had covid and may still be struggling, I can only think we have a few others isolating. Lamie has suddenly disappeared and no sign of Bevis yesterday although Alexander may have just decided to rest him and give Carrol  some game time given it was a Championship club which is understandable. It was though good to see Slattery back though, I’ve heard one or two state they don’t rate him which I find baffling, I think he’s a terrific player. 

[Dunning1874]

14 hours ago, ropy said:

We seemed not have a focus up front until KVV came on, 

In the sober light of day, this is a very pertinent observation. Our centre backs were generally unfazed for most of that game despite the amount of the ball Motherwell had, Van Veen coming on meant there was finally someone who could trap a ball in the final third and do something other than launching a cut back out for a throw in. There was considerably less composure in our defence with him buzzing about.

Wild to see people saying Morton were guilty of agricultural challenges. The two worst tackles in the game were by Motherwell players which had advantages played, and Walsh is apparently unaware you're allowed to go back and book players after playing an advantage.

Of course no referees are actually at it or anything and we won't be asking the SFA for a constructive discussion, but I think referees can easily get caught up in a narrative. We already saw this away to Hamilton this season when there was briefly an expectation they would be good and challenge for the title rather than be among the relegation battling dross like a team managed by Gus MacPherson. A referee is given a game between a good Premiership team and a poor Championship one, it turns into a scrappy even game and he just assumes every 50/50 can be determined by the quality of the sides.

A centre back clambers all over a centre forward for every single header in his own half all day: that's just him using his strength. The exact same thing happens up the other end, you don't expect this team to be dealing with their opponents as easily so that's a freekick to the attacking team every time it happens. Ultimately the defeat is still down to absolutely shambolic defending from McLean for the winner, but even taking the penalty out of the equation that kind of refereeing performance makes it very hard to settle into a game with the whistle going every 90 seconds for entirely imaginary fouls when players have the temerity to win the ball.

[Swello]

I didn't think Morton were particularly physical other than the big man up front who just ran into people all day. What did happen was that near the end of the 90 and throughout extra time, Morton tired pretty noticeably and were struggling to track runners, so there were plenty of fouls to stop Motherwell players getting away from them.  Other that, it was a cup tie FFS - I'd hope there were a few challenges going in and if we're doing it to Aberdeen in a few weeks as I'm sure we will, I'll be all for it.

I think the main turning point (and we've been on the other end of this countless times against sides with better squads) was when we made some subs that actually enhanced the the team rather than just added fresh legs. Slattery added some actual composure in midfield (which we had been lacking as the game went on), Tierney's movement caused a lot of problems against a tired defence and KVV was just an upgrade on Shields.

On the penalty - I couldn't see what happened at the time but from the highlights, it was clear cut (and pretty needless). Donnelly's finish was brilliant, although I just noticed that Tierney went over injured after it - hope there is no problem there. 

Lastly, I hope Ojala or someone is fit for Wednesday - I was a long way from being convinced with our 7th choice defence and I hope at some point this season, we can get a run without injuries as this is the worst it's been, only saved by the fact that our squad so many centre halfs in it.

[Mr.Blue]

14 hours ago, Yorky said:

I thought he got most things right other than being far too lenient with Morton, how they finished with 11 men is beyond me. They were very agricultural.

Behave yourself. The referee was far too lenient from the outset on both teams. Then he booked Brandon which if memory serves me right wasn't even the worst foul of the game up to that point. Of our bookings the only one I couldn't argue with was Jacobs as it was a professional foul. Motherwell were just as 'agricultural' as big bad Morton. The two centre backs and Ugwu had a great battle all day but there was a few potential bookings and fouls in there that weren't given. The boy Roberts should have been booked for rolling about for 3 minutes after one of our players had the audacity to challenge him. 

It was a good game. Two competitive teams going at it. It's just unfortunate that we were on the end of a lot of poor decision making by the referee however the biggest let down was mcleans mistake for the winner. If it went to penalties I think we'd have went through but it wasn't to be.

[Yorky]

50 minutes ago, Mr.Blue said:

Behave yourself. The referee was far too lenient from the outset on both teams. Then he booked Brandon which if memory serves me right wasn't even the worst foul of the game up to that point. Of our bookings the only one I couldn't argue with was Jacobs as it was a professional foul. Motherwell were just as 'agricultural' as big bad Morton. The two centre backs and Ugwu had a great battle all day but there was a few potential bookings and fouls in there that weren't given. The boy Roberts should have been booked for rolling about for 3 minutes after one of our players had the audacity to challenge him. 

It was a good game. Two competitive teams going at it. It's just unfortunate that we were on the end of a lot of poor decision making by the referee however the biggest let down was mcleans mistake for the winner. If it went to penalties I think we'd have went through but it wasn't to be.

I simply don’t believe the ref was close to as bad as is being made out. I would agree that there were times you could make an argument for Ugwu but even then he’s a big lad and went down pretty easily at times. Most of the bookings were for bookable offences although I was maybe a little harsh using the word agricultural, it was more being slightly late or taking out the likes of Tierney when through. The tackle on Roberts was another one that was late and just took him out, there was no intention to get the ball. I’m under no illusion that Morton players will have been told to get in our faces and break up play, that’s normal when a team plays against another from a higher division, a bit of levelling up but that’s just about always going to see players booked. Even ignoring the possession and shot stats Morton lost because they made mistakes, the two goals were for a push on Tierney and a mistake by a Morton defender, that was down to them but then the Morton manager felt the better team had lost so there you go, maybe not.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Yorky

[Archie McSquackle]

Roberts got absolutely wiped out on the touchline in the first half to point thoughts of a red card went briefly through my mind. Tierney got hacked down for a professional foul and someone else went through him. I can't remember the other bookings but I really struggle to see how anyone can take issue with these. I genuinely can't remember any Motherwell challenges that were anywhere near as crude as these.

Edit: the number of bookings seems a strange thing for us all to be arguing about when we all seem to agree Morton took a chance, Motherwell were generally on top until KVV came on and then took advantage against a tiring Morton team.

[Yorky]

1 minute ago, Archie McSquackle said:

Roberts got absolutely wiped out on the touchline in the first half to point thoughts of a red card went briefly through my mind. Tierney got hacked down for a professional foul and someone else went through him. I can't remember the other bookings but I really struggle to see how anyone can take issue with these. I genuinely can't remember any Motherwell challenges that were anywhere near as crude as these.

Absolutely spot on I’m afraid, glad it’s just not me.

[ropy]

1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

In the sober light of day, this is a very pertinent observation. Our centre backs were generally unfazed for most of that game despite the amount of the ball Motherwell had, Van Veen coming on meant there was finally someone who could trap a ball in the final third and do something other than launching a cut back out for a throw in. There was considerably less composure in our defence with him buzzing about.

Wild to see people saying Morton were guilty of agricultural challenges. The two worst tackles in the game were by Motherwell players which had advantages played, and Walsh is apparently unaware you're allowed to go back and book players after playing an advantage.

Of course no referees are actually at it or anything and we won't be asking the SFA for a constructive discussion, but I think referees can easily get caught up in a narrative. We already saw this away to Hamilton this season when there was briefly an expectation they would be good and challenge for the title rather than be among the relegation battling dross like a team managed by Gus MacPherson. A referee is given a game between a good Premiership team and a poor Championship one, it turns into a scrappy even game and he just assumes every 50/50 can be determined by the quality of the sides.

A centre back clambers all over a centre forward for every single header in his own half all day: that's just him using his strength. The exact same thing happens up the other end, you don't expect this team to be dealing with their opponents as easily so that's a freekick to the attacking team every time it happens. Ultimately the defeat is still down to absolutely shambolic defending from McLean for the winner, but even taking the penalty out of the equation that kind of refereeing performance makes it very hard to settle into a game with the whistle going every 90 seconds for entirely imaginary fouls when players have the temerity to win the ball.

I agree with some of that, in most situations we are the small team but occasionally we are the big boys and can get the run of the green.  The first time I noticed this was the season after McFadden broke through, he had gone on to play for Scotland so was a name in the game. In the August he was treated differently by referees, any challenge on him resulted in a free kick to Motherwell.  I hadn’t realised that Morton got five yellow cards to our zero, I didn’t think the ‘agriculturalness’ distinction between the teams was that stark.

[Archie McSquackle]

Having just caught up on Sportscene's brief highlights, it really stands out how Carroll makes no attempt to defend at their goal. At the time I looked up and, seeing he was on his own, thought he had to go it alone but we had players back. Unfortunately we didn't bother to challenge him.

Also, you can see the two-handed shove on Tierney for the penalty.

[Doctor Manhattan]

2 hours ago, Archie McSquackle said:

Also, you can see the two-handed shove on Tierney for the penalty.

As blatant as it was pointless. He probably took the wee lad's milk money too.

[ropy]

It was a definite push, he must have thought that Tierney was going to use his impressive frame to out jump him and power the header home.

[ZX1886]

Having watched the incident back, there does appear to be a push and reluctantly, Nick Walsh made the correct decision.

[Archie McSquackle]

I know football managers come out with nonsense but on what basis did Imrie think the better side didn't progress? If they'd won then I'd have said fair enough, they had a game plan of trying to defend and see if they could snatch something but they had only two shots on target compared to something like 11 from Motherwell.

[vikingTON]

5 minutes ago, Archie McSquackle said:

I know football managers come out with nonsense but on what basis did Imrie think the better side didn't progress? If they'd won then I'd have said fair enough, they had a game plan of trying to defend and see if they could snatch something but they had only two shots on target compared to something like 11 from Motherwell.

I agree that Imrie's claim is nonsense - Motherwell could and really should have scored in the 90 minutes, in which case there wouldn't have been too many complaints. The manner of the turnaround after nicking a goal is frustrating, but if Imrie wants to blow smoke then he should have just pointed to crap and inconsistent refereeing (from a Morton view).  

Our gameplan wasn't trying to defend and nick something though. If it was, then we wouldn't have played two up front with Oliver meant to be playing as a number 10 behind them. We ended up with few shots because Motherwell dominated the ball, though being quite wasteful in 90 minutes and doing less and less with it in extra time until the penalty. We were generally well-organised without the ball but that's just common sense. 

[ropy]

10 hours ago, virginton said:

I agree that Imrie's claim is nonsense - Motherwell could and really should have scored in the 90 minutes, in which case there wouldn't have been too many complaints. The manner of the turnaround after nicking a goal is frustrating, but if Imrie wants to blow smoke then he should have just pointed to crap and inconsistent refereeing (from a Morton view).  

Our gameplan wasn't trying to defend and nick something though. If it was, then we wouldn't have played two up front with Oliver meant to be playing as a number 10 behind them. We ended up with few shots because Motherwell dominated the ball, though being quite wasteful in 90 minutes and doing less and less with it in extra time until the penalty. We were generally well-organised without the ball but that's just common sense. 

Imrie’s game plan was to shout abuse at our strikers, which I applaud, my campaign for microphones at the dugout starts here, a subscription channel obviously 

[Scosha]

6 minutes ago, ropy said:

Imrie’s game plan was to shout abuse at our strikers, which I applaud, my campaign for microphones at the dugout starts here, a subscription channel obviously 

I love him even more now. Superb.

I've watched it back quite a few times and can't agree it's a pen. Undoubtedly Ledger 'touches' Tierney with his arms, but it's nowhere near a push and the way Tierney goes down is embarrassing. If a referee deems that as a foul then there would be umpteen pens every game. 

I'm quite pleased with how we played overall, when the draw was made I was fearful of another pumping at Fir Park but Imrie has instilled a bit of belief and confidence back into the players. Had Van Veen been on since the start Motherwell would've probably won that in 90 mins given the amount of crosses into our box that no striker seemed interested in getting on the end of. 

[ropy]

8 minutes ago, Scosha said:

I love him even more now. Superb.

I've watched it back quite a few times and can't agree it's a pen. Undoubtedly Ledger 'touches' Tierney with his arms, but it's nowhere near a push and the way Tierney goes down is embarrassing. If a referee deems that as a foul then there would be umpteen pens every game. 

I'm quite pleased with how we played overall, when the draw was made I was fearful of another pumping at Fir Park but Imrie has instilled a bit of belief and confidence back into the players. Had Van Veen been on since the start Motherwell would've probably won that in 90 mins given the amount of crosses into our box that no striker seemed interested in getting on the end of. 

I am going to say the better team won but it didn’t really have the feel of a game against lower league opposition.

[Yorky]

2 hours ago, ropy said:

Imrie’s game plan was to shout abuse at our strikers, which I applaud, my campaign for microphones at the dugout starts here, a subscription channel obviously 

He’s a strange individual.

[DreamOakTree1]

I thought Motherwell had more composure on the ball whilst We were a bit erratic or rushed in comparison. However Motherwell huffed and puffed when it got to the final third and our defence put in a great effort so I thought overall We deserved something from the game. It did look like an unnecessary two handed push to Me from the Morton end, though I’m not sure We’d have got the decision as there appeared to be a more blatant push on Ugwu. Did the ref also add a minute of injury time?