Pundits! But Scottish

[Scott Steiner]

2 minutes ago, Thorongil said:

Was it his Kneel Oliver like adoration of British State apparatus perhaps?

If he shares Brother Oliver's opinions on such matters, then that'll likely have swayed my view!

[Clown Job]

2 hours ago, Thorongil said:

He’s a complete MOPE, Scott. one of these people who sees anti-Catholic bigotry in his cereal, sandwiches and spaghetti bolognese. And he claims he thinks it’s bad but he doesn’t. He gets a huge thrill from masturbating his imaginary victimhood.

Of course he does come from a generation where anti catholic discrimination was very real and widespread in Scottish society

Now you can argue that type of discrimination no longer exists and you’d probably win that argument 

But it’s easy to understand why people can be cynical about it being eradicated.

In my experience being called a MOPE is usually from the type of people who support the anti catholic marches in the country

Since it is a derogative term ain’t at one particular section of society

Just in my experience mind you

Edit: It’s pretty wild a Celtic fan would use it

Edited December 14, 2021 by Clown Job

[Thorongil]

1 hour ago, Clown Job said:

Of course he does come from a generation where anti catholic discrimination was very real and widespread in Scottish society

Now you can argue that type of discrimination no longer exists and you’d probably win that argument 

But it’s easy to understand why people can be cynical about it being eradicated.

In my experience being called a MOPE is usually from the type of people who support the anti catholic marches in the country

Since it is a derogative term ain’t at one particular section of society

Just in my experience mind you

Edit: It’s pretty wild a Celtic fan would use it

He’s the kind of person who sneers at the progress that has been made and actually contributes to slowing it down. I am a Catholic and a Celtic fan but you need to be willing to consider all aspects of an issue. McMillan does not seek to do this, preferring instead to luxuriate in his own comfort zone of being the marginalised and oppressed. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, Thorongil said:

He’s the kind of person who sneers at the progress that has been made and actually contributes to slowing it down. I am a Catholic and a Celtic fan but you need to be willing to consider all aspects of an issue. McMillan does not seek to do this, preferring instead to luxuriate in his own comfort zone of being the marginalised and oppressed. 

I've no doubt that growing up in Cumnock James McMillan did indeed experience religious bigotry, as did many others at that time.  Not all of them however use a position of public prominence to fire angry broadsides which are often the wrong side of offensive.  For example he once described the Reformation as 'Year Zero' which was no doubt highly offensive to many in the reformed faith, that term of course being associated with atrocities in Cambodia.

Scotland has a lot to be historically ashamed about in its accommodation of differing faiths in its society, and retrospectively the Education (Scotland) Act 1918 which brought Catholic education into the state system can be viewed fully in that context.  However, as the song says, those days are past now and it's time to jettison denominational education.  It will be a brave politician who tries however, especially in West Central Scotland, and more's the pity.

[Clown Job]

21 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

However, as the song says, those days are past now and it's time to jettison denominational education. 

See without going off topic, all I say is the day Scotland has no anti catholic marches is the day you can discuss phasing out catholic schools

Cause catholic schools are not the problem when it comes to anti catholic bigotry 

[Salt n Vinegar]

45 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I've no doubt that growing up in Cumnock James McMillan did indeed experience religious bigotry, as did many others at that time.  Not all of them however use a position of public prominence to fire angry broadsides which are often the wrong side of offensive.  For example he once described the Reformation as 'Year Zero' which was no doubt highly offensive to many in the reformed faith, that term of course being associated with atrocities in Cambodia.

Scotland has a lot to be historically ashamed about in its accommodation of differing faiths in its society, and retrospectively the Education (Scotland) Act 1918 which brought Catholic education into the state system can be viewed fully in that context.  However, as the song says, those days are past now and it's time to jettison denominational education.  It will be a brave politician who tries however, especially in West Central Scotland, and more's the pity.

This.  Well said.  

[O'Kelly Isley III]

37 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

See without going off topic, all I say is the day Scotland has no anti catholic marches is the day you can discuss phasing out catholic schools

Cause catholic schools are not the problem when it comes to anti catholic bigotry 

On that definition I never said they were, but my argument would be that whilst I fully recognise why some people still consider denominational schools necessary in Scottish society in 2021, I view them as an unhelpful anachronism.  But then I don't recognise the concept of schools per se being places of religious indoctrination, that should belong in the church and in the home. 

As for the bigoted marches, I think most sane people of all faiths and none detest them, and what we are seeing is the death rattle of a narrow (in every sense) sector of the population - just look at the decreasing numbers involved.

Edited December 14, 2021 by O'Kelly Isley III

[Thorongil]

11 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

On that definition I never said they were, but my argument would be that whilst I fully recognise why some people still consider denominational schools necessary in Scottish society in 2021, I view them as an unhelpful anachronism.  But then I don't recognise the concept of schools per se being places of religious indoctrination, that should belong in the church and in the home. 

As for the bigoted marches, I think most sane people of all faiths and none detest them, and what we are seeing is the death rattle of a narrow (in every sense) sector of the population - just look at the decreasing numbers involved.

I agree, and I say that as a product of Catholic education and had no issue with it. It is a very strange gift to the a church in the modern age that they are given this accommodation. I would make all schools non denominational and stop religious groups including the Church of Scotland from extending their ideological tentacles therein. 

[Scott Steiner]

To those talking about anti-catholic marches; do you have examples of these marches and what makes them anti-catholic?  As well as what you mean by anti-catholic?

I'm in the Orange Order and will be happy to answer any questions.

**Takes cover**

I'm quite happy to keep the school situation as it is.  It was the Church of Scotland that set up and gifted the schools to the state in the first place with the condition that they'd always have a special place in the school.  They created free schooling.  Over time, that special place has diminished into hardly anything at all, but no big deal for me.  Catholics pay taxes too so should be allowed to have their own schools IMO.

I've been in RC schools and they are just normal schools to be honest.  Not bigot factories and indoctrination centres like some make out.

Bigotry is intolerance and a refusal to budge from your view no matter what.  Schools, marches, songs and the old firm don't cause bigotry IMO.  It's caused by idiotic parenting, and is not something confined to Protestants and Catholics but to all walks of society.  Ironically enough, the biggest bigots are usually those who won't shut up about how bad bigotry is.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Scott Steiner

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

The centrists are doing jokes again. Also hilarious that so many of the "be kind online" journalists are still following and interacting with Spanner, by anyone's measure one of the vilest people on the internet

[AndyM]

18 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

The centrists are doing jokes again. Also hilarious that so many of the "be kind online" journalists are still following and interacting with Spanner, by anyone's measure one of the vilest people on the internet

I went back on Twitter for a month last summer and I was genuinely surprised to see friends of mine actually following some of the worst Scottish twitter trolls going varying from swivel eyed Unionist right wing lunatics like Spanner (misoginy), Janella (miscarriage jokes), AgentP (all round c***) to the remains of Wings lunatic fringe apologists raging against Trans people. 

Reminded me why I chucked it in the first place. 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

6 minutes ago, AndyM said:

I went back on Twitter for a month last summer and I was genuinely surprised to see friends of mine actually following some of the worst Scottish twitter trolls going varying from swivel eyed Unionist right wing lunatics like Spanner (misoginy), Janella (miscarriage jokes), AgentP (all round c***) to the remains of Wings lunatic fringe apologists raging against Trans people. 

Reminded me why I chucked it in the first place. 

Aye I don't really follow anyone in that Scottish ecosystem as tbf every single one of them are weird, the referendum pushed a lot of people into being relatively big accounts on all sides who in trying to keep up the same schtick have just become odder, more entrenched and deranged/vile. This has just been dunked on more widely

[oneteaminglasgow]

2 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

The centrists are doing jokes again. Also hilarious that so many of the "be kind online" journalists are still following and interacting with Spanner, by anyone's measure one of the vilest people on the internet

This doesn’t even make sense either, given that most of the Novara media lot have names like Michael Walker or whatever.

I’m assuming they’re having a dig at the ones with “foreign” names but pretending not to be. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

A bit of a return to previous form for Iain McWhirter in this morning's Herald in an article about Brexit and Lord Frost's flouncing out.  He suggests that despite all the loud posturing the UK has effectively been trounced on the NI Protocol - it could be interesting to see how the Loyalists react to watered-down sovereignty.

[welshbairn]

4 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

A bit of a return to previous form for Iain McWhirter in this morning's Herald in an article about Brexit and Lord Frost's flouncing out.  He suggests that despite all the loud posturing the UK has effectively been trounced on the NI Protocol - it could be interesting to see how the Loyalists react to watered-down sovereignty.

Also interesting how the ERG types will respond to this, if true..

Quote

The most likely outcome, and the one which Frost clearly saw coming, is that gradually the UK as a whole will start to adopt the regulatory standards of the EU by default - if only to keep trade moving freely. Such was the unspoken objective of May’s Withdrawal Agreement. The backstop is back.

The EU’s imposition of a barrage of no-tariff barriers in the Irish Sea - all those bureaucratic checks on supermarket lorries and banning of processed meats - has worked a treat. When it comes down to it, the UK does not have the stomach for trade war. Britons want an easy life. And that means getting on message with the single market.

 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

Well done Iain for managing to find and isolate that gas leak in his house

[D Angelo Barksdale]

 

[welshbairn]

14 minutes ago, Kima Greggs said:

 

I'm sure hacks have got a lot more casual about lying since Trump and Fox News etc started making out that truth is just a matter of opinion.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

14 hours ago, Kima Greggs said:

 

Worse than that. The correction is for an article in December. Massive published the same (false) claims in an article this week. All very good 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[NotThePars]

I'm sure hacks have got a lot more casual about lying since Trump and Fox News etc started making out that truth is just a matter of opinion.

Iraq was 2003 and no hacks lost their jobs for it. If you’re in the group you can do what you like unless you come for someone else in the clique (much like this website! #WhatsApp)