Scotland v Ukraine

[Bairnardo]

1 minute ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

I actually agree with you. Moyes would be an excellent replacement but he ain't coming anytime soon, so I'd probably persist with Clarke but he seems so stubborn that I don't see him learning anything from his errors.

No, Moyes is fantasyland stuff at the minute, but hes the only Scottish (I know we can look elsewhere) upgrade I can think of.

Only time will tell re whether Clarkes stubborness prevents him from learning anything. I think KT missing out and sticking with that system will be seen by him as a mistake, I think Dykes and Adams together wont happen again, and I think Souttar and McKenna find themselves ahead of Cooper and McTominay for roles in the centre of defence. 

 

Or are those things just hope..... I dont know, but my personal belief is that however stubborn Clarke might be, its not so much that the above issues dont get addressed. 

[Monkey Tennis]

7 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Another touch and shot is a goal, or a penalty if the defender gets there. Academic now.

It's only a penalty if the defender gets there, then commits a foul.

As you say though, it really doesn't matter now.

[Joe Terrapin]

Yes the way we set up was poor but Clarke's not to blame for the abject performances just about every player put in during the game. If McGinn, McGregor, Gilmour and Robertson even put in an average performance by their standards we would not have succumbed so easily. As it was they fell well short of what they are capable of. That's not on Clarke.

[FalkirkBairn2021]

I was anti Clarke after/during the Euros but reckon he should stay now. 

I think we're desperately short in a few key positions so not sure binning him now will help much. 

If we just had one quality forward...

[Donathan]

1 minute ago, FalkirkBairn2021 said:

I was anti Clarke after/during the Euros but reckon he should stay now. 

I think we're desperately short in a few key positions so not sure binning him now will help much. 

If we just had one quality forward...

 

I would do anything for a Patrik Schick or a Mitrovic type player (Both slightly better than 1-in-2 for their respective countries). The boy Yaremchuk last night is a level below those two but even still a 1-in-3 striker which is far better than we've got.

 

Ross Stewart is the most prolific option we've got at club level, albeit in the third tier of English football. If he continues that form in the championship next season then there's little reason why he shouldn't surpass Dykes as our best option playing the lone striker role. Adams is the best player of the lot but he's nowhere near lethal enough in front of goal.

[Father Ted]

Now that I've calmed down a bit after that horror show last night 

I think the criticism of Robertson and Hanley is way over the top. McGinn was awful but he wasn't the only one.

It's the way we looked like we were building something positive before last night's game. Then we turned in that performance, almost back to the grimness of pre/early Clarke.

His inability to change tactics quickly during matches when it's not going our way, is woeful and suggests a stubbornness or ineptitude. Which I would suggest shows he's not up to it, if he doesn't address it.

For example after McT was moved into midfield albeit far too late, we looked more competent.

When it was obvious the keeper was a bombscare, we should have been whipping in corners on top of him, with a big man next to him pre take.  Languid outswingers were not what we needed. I can see that, how can professional players not?

Lumping balls up to a big man upfront is a dinosaur tactic that should be binned, unless you are chasing a goal in the last few minutes.

I can take a loss and  I understand players aren't robots and can be effected by a myriad of things. 

It was the manner of the loss last night. 

Right now if we were playing Armenia in my back garden, i doubt I would open the curtains to watch it.

 

[F_T_Y]

A group of five, the f**k is he talking about, they should have given Ukraine  Saudi Arabia spot, another country that has been attacking  a smaller nation for years and we played Wales for the spot. The tournament is in Qatar you're not going to get any morals from Fifa. 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Jambomo said:

I don’t know why every defeat needs to turn into some kind of existential crisis tbh.

We were poor that’s it. It doesn't mean we have technically inferior players or that the Ukraine 11 would walk into our team (they are a much better team than they were being given credit for though) they wouldn’t.

I was thinking the game reminded me of West Ham v Frankfurt tie, a really good team that looked tired and burnt out a bit. My worry is whether we can pick it back up for Armenia but I hope the weeks rest will help a bit.

Scotland are not and never have been (in the modern era) "a really good team". Scotland are a third tier European country at best.

Getting to the WC play-offs and being papped out is par for the course, but the supposed peak level that people are expecting has not been convincingly demonstrated. It isn't there. A team with such hopeless centre back options, a sub-par midfield and third-rate forwards is punching at or arguably slightly above its level. 

[Steve_Wilkos]

Steve Clarke?

More like Steve Parp (the noise of a fart).

[Boaby Fisher]

Clarke definitely has to shoulder much of the blame here but I'm hugely disappointed by the players' lack of fire in such an important game. Ukraine are a good side, but I would contend they are nowhere near as good as England, who we managed to draw with and easily could have beaten at the Euros (didn't they beat Ukraine 4-0 in the KO stages?). This pish about raising your game for the 'auld enemy' and then laying down and surrendering to anyone else who is half decent gets on my tits.

[Todd_is_God]

4 hours ago, Fratelli said:

Gordon’s decision making in terms of when/when not to charge out has always been a weird point to his game. Was a massive issue in Europe when he played for Celtic - where half decent strikers would just leave him in no man’s land.

I said this at the time and got slated for it by @Tynie Nickleby 

[Todd_is_God]

2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I think he'd just have skelped it either side of him.

If he can bring it down, yes. But in the second or 2 it takes to do that (remember the ball is level with him and about 4-5 feet in the air) Gordon can then actually narrow the angle, and Hanley tackles him anyway.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

If he can bring it down, yes. But in the second or 2 it takes to do that (remember the ball is level with him and about 4-5 feet in the air) Gordon can then actually narrow the angle, and Hanley tackles him anyway.

Hanley? I think that's when the penalty might have been given.

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, Sergeant Wilson said:

Hanley? I think that's when the penalty might have been given.

Why are we assuming Hanley would have fouled him? It's not like Yarmolenko was between him and the ball - he had a clear path to the ball to have the opportunity to win it cleanly.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

Why are we assuming Hanley would have fouled him? It's not like Yarmolenko was between him and the ball - he had a clear path to the ball to have the opportunity to win it cleanly.

You might have noticed, I'm a bit of a pessimist.

[Todd_is_God]

Let's be clear here, though. We didn't lose because Gordon made a poor decision. We've lost because of a number of poor decisions / bad luck.

Malinovsky not being ordered off.

Hanley sitting too deep and Robertson still trying to play Yarmolemko offside.

McGinn allowing a Ukrainian to waltz by him like he wasn't there.

Hanley being a yard short of clearing Yaremchuk's header off the line.

Yaremchuk not being ordered off.

Their Goalie popping McGregor's block over the bar because of the momentum from his swinging foot.

McGinn missing an open goal.

Outplayed we absolutely were, but on another day any one of them going a different way could make all the difference.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Todd_is_God

[Theroadlesstravelled]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

Let's be clear here, though. We didn't lose because Gordon made a poor decision. We've lost because of a number of poor decisions / bad luck.

Malinovsky not being ordered off.

Hanley sitting too deep and Robertson still trying to play Yarmolemko offside.

McGinn allowing a Ukrainian to waltz by him like he wasn't there.

Hanley being a yard short of clearing Yaremchuk's header off the line.

Yaremchuk not being ordered off.

Their Goalie popping McGregor's block over the bar because of the momentum from his swinging foot.

McGinn missing an open goal.

Outplayed we absolutely were, but on another day any one of them going a different way could make all the difference.

 

That’s true. If they played with 9 men then we might have a chance.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

Let's be clear here, though. We didn't lose because Gordon made a poor decision. We've lost because of a number of poor decisions / bad luck.

Malinovsky not being ordered off.

Hanley sitting too deep and Robertson still trying to play Yarmolemko offside.

McGinn allowing a Ukrainian to waltz by him like he wasn't there.

Hanley being a yard short of clearing Yaremchuk's header off the line.

Yaremchuk not being ordered off.

Their Goalie popping McGregor's block over the bar because of the momentum from his swinging foot.

McGinn missing an open goal.

Outplayed we absolutely were, but on another day any one of them going a different way could make all the difference.

 

I take it this is tongue firmly in cheek stuff.  I lost count of the number of very decent chances the Ukrainians passed up.  Not that it seemed to bother them however, as they knew another would be along in a few minutes.

Just accept that the result was a genuine reflection of the play, nothing else.

[Todd_is_God]

22 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Just accept that the result was a genuine reflection of the play, nothing else.

I didn't say otherwise

[red23]

The two most obvious points would be

• McTominay should never be in defence again. He's not a defender. Was the same as the Serbia game he just watches the ball sail past him and allows an unchallenged header. The difference having him in midfield made was massive and gave us a spark we were missing.
• Hickey isn't ready, get yourself in to the under 21's boy

Edited June 2, 2022 by red23