Scotland v Ukraine

[TheScarf]

Ready for the weekend by Calvin Harris imo.

[Jambomo]

Just back and tbh, the whole game felt flat as f**k from the start and I thought the players looked really tired and there were a lot of poor performances because of it.

There was also a real unevenness in most of our squad finishing up fairly hard seasons where most players first team football and the Ukraine who were obviously better rested and have been together training now for a few months. Not their fault of course but it’s a fair advantage. 

McGinn was probably one of the worst today (and he is usually one of my favourite players) he just looked like he couldn’t run and I think on that side he should have been supporting Hickey, so this hung him out to dry a bit - I thought Hickey did ok, there were times he was left with 2 or 3 players to defend and no support.

I actually kind of feel for the players a bit, the whole fucking nonsense round this game I think made the atmosphere a bit weird, and I think did affect them a bit. 

We are off the back of one of the best runs I’ve seen as a Scotland fan (and I’ve been going to games a long time now) so I am far from calling for Clarkes head or even calling out the players - just kind of disappointed really. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Jambomo

[Binos]

7 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Clarke's post-match interview on Sky was equally dreadful. 

He was utterly clueless and didn't seem bothered by the result.

A real manager would have been seething with rage by that mauling.

I'm not saying he should go

But what's he got left in this job now?

[GroundskeeperWillie]

Really really disappointing that tonight, I had the fear to begin with that this was not going to be the cakewalk that some may have painted it as, and so it was proven, but to lose while playing so poorly is what really frustrates.

Ultimately, too many players who have been off the boil in the latter part of the season carried that over into tonight.  Dykes has been injured/off form for a while, Hanley and Gilmour have struggled in a very poor Norwich side, and McTominay has been getting savage criticism for his showings in a Man U jersey of late.  Unfortunately, tonight was also not the night to be making wholesale changes left right and centre, so while it is easy to criticise the selections, Clarke I feel had to go with the guys he trusts.

Midfield was very poor, but hindered somewhat by the humph up the park to Dykes.  It's a tactic oft gone to and never successful, bringing back some shuddering memories of the times Duncan Ferguson bothered to declare himself available.

Lessons will have to be learned if we are to qualify for major tournaments and be successful going forwards, whether that also necessitates a reset in personnel (playing mainly) remains to be seen.  I don't think the sudden knee-jerk get rid of Clarke is helpful though, we 've been down this road too many times and again the old question of who do you get in exactly remains, and whether a new fiddle will get a sweeter tune.

Also, can we please leave the political stuff to the politics/general forum?  It's patently obvious there are some who can't stand Sturgeon, get that, but would rather the post mortem of what actually happened on the pitch tonight be dissected (unless of course Sturgeon was playing tonight, in which case batter on..!)

[Jambomo]

9 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Hickey on the right, until such time as he has played regularly and consistently performed there for his club, should be a last resort

I mean to be fair, he has been playing on the right a fair bit this season for Bologna. 

[Mr Tourette]

When I saw the line up I got the fear. We didn’t seem to have any attacking creativity in midfield. Christie and/or Armstrong should have started with Adams as the lone striker. Dykes is next to useless unless we’re playing a pub team/minnow outfit

Contrary to many posts on here, I thought Hickey was actually ok. He had the look of someone who expected to be surrounded with competent players but wasn’t.

In summary, Ukraine had technically better players in every position and we can have no complaints about the result. It could and should have been more than 3-1

[Ewan8472]

2 minutes ago, Coooombe said:

Nah it was obvious. They literally sat with their centre backs with the ball at their feet on the 6 yard line while their forwards went 3v3 against our centre halfs. As soon as our midfield moved forward they hit the big striker and, as our midfield never tracks runners, were 4 or 5 on 3 numerous times. 

Our midfield does track runners

Their first goal was a farce , even if we were not pressing them.

Their second goal was poor. Hickey ended up trying to stop their giant of a CF. Where were McTominay and Hanley ?

Again our defence cannot seem to organise themselves !

 

[Ewan8472]

6 minutes ago, Binos said:

They also played zinchenko and yarmalenko high in midfield in the pockets of space they knew our formation would leave 

In short they did a number on us

Or we let them 

Appalling 

This !

Was three at the back a mistake as well then ?

as two up front .

 

 

[GroundskeeperWillie]

12 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

We were comfortably outclassed from start to finish there but some lessons to be learned.

McTominay at centre back should be a last resort and only a last resort when natural centre backs are unavailable. Hickey on the right, until such time as he has played regularly and consistently performed there for his club, should be a last resort and only a last resort when natural right backs are unavailable.

We might have got away with one of them if Hickey had Souttar/Hendry to cover his arse, or McTominay had O'Donnell for his, but with the two of them together there was an area of the park Ukraine could comfortably overload and knew they would find acres of space in attack while knowing we also had no attacking threat there because Hickey was incapable of going outside his man. That in turn made the whole midfield and rest of the defence worse. Hanley did have a mare, but he also spent most of the first half with three men to pick up because the whole right hand side was effectively left to be his responsibility by those two.

How often has Dykes and Adams together worked? I can't be arsed checking right now but I'd be surprised if we had a better record with the two of them than with one and Christie/another off them.

Denmark should be the template for how we play against teams on a par or better than us - we threw that approach out the window tonight. Maybe we'd have been taken to bits the same way regardless if we had put our strongest team on the park, but that team selection made it much more likely.

100 per cent agree, can only assume Clarke thought playing McTominay in defence would offer the sort of thing Tierney has been doing for us, i.e. the defensive part aligned with the maurauding runs that can support the attacks.  Unfortunately, McTominay isn't as adept at defending and not got the all round game Tierney has to offer an attacking threat.

I would have started O'Donnell, mainly because he's not done a lot wrong in the games he has played for Scotland, and I thought he'd have offered a bit more physicality than Hickey did.  I feel for Hickey though, because he didn't hide at all, but Ukraine were able to expose that side of the pitch a lot and he seemed bullied at times.

[hearthammer]

23 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

She should get the f**k off Twitter and give us all peace after what she out us through this last 2 years.

We've had quite enough of her hand-wringing, virtue-signalling pish to last a lifetime.

And what your lords and (unchallenged) masters in westminster have landed  us with ???  You really need a reality check, mi amigo

[DA Baracus]

12 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Clarke's post-match interview on Sky was equally dreadful. 

He was utterly clueless and didn't seem bothered by the result.

A real manager would have been seething with rage by that mauling.

Aye, everyone has to react to things in the exact same manner and everyone has to show emotion in the exact same manner. There must be no deviation.

What did Clarke say to the players in the dressing room after the game incidentally? 

[Bishop Briggs]

9 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Saw someone on Twitter earlier saying McGinn had a performance to match his face. 

My wife made a similar, but more brutal, comment.

If I posted it on here, the Mods would ban me.

[J_Stewart]

The Ukrainian team are staying in my hotel. Every one of the rude c***s just walked past me without apologising for ruining my night. Selfish arseholes.

Scotland were also very bad at the football. Very, very bad.

[Ewan8472]

3 minutes ago, Mr Tourette said:

When I saw the line up I got the fear. We didn’t seem to have any attacking creativity in midfield. Christie and/or Armstrong should have started with Adams as the lone striker. Dykes is next to useless unless we’re playing a pub team/minnow outfit

Contrary to many posts on here, I thought Hickey was actually ok. He had the look of someone who expected to be surrounded with competent players but wasn’t.

In summary, Ukraine had technically better players in every position and we can have no complaints about the result. It could and should have been more than 3-1

Gilmour.

Agreed.

A bit harsh on Dykes.

Mmmm,

Well McGinn should have scored that header

 

 

 

 

[accies1874]

Was embarrassing watching that, particularly in the first half. Ukraine's movements completely annihilated our midfield - exact same as Croatia did - and were dragging the backline everywhere. So easy for them to play out around our front three, too, and tbh they just looked like a really well coached side who were also clever in seeing the game out with timing of subs, knowing when to play long and knowing when to be c***s. That's not to mention their technical ability in the final third that made ours look laughable in comparison. 

It looked like coaching VS vibes for a lot of it.

Moving to a back four was right and you can kinda let the minging defence of counter-attacks slide as we were 2-0 down, but when you've essentially got four or five players looking to get in between the lines centrally, it's not much to ask that your full-backs stretch things a bit. f**k knows what Robertson was all about. McGinn too. Took him about 60/65 minutes to realise he wasn't gonna win fouls and actually decided to start playing football. 

I actually felt sorry for Gilmour and McGregor tbh as most midfielders would look lost when as exposed as that. 

[Jambomo]

1 minute ago, J_Stewart said:

The Ukrainian team are staying in my hotel. Every one of the rude c***s just walked past me without apologising for ruining my night. Selfish arseholes.

Scotland were also very bad at the football. Very, very bad.

Can you set off the fire alarm? Constantly? Like every half hour. b*****ds don’t deserve sleep. 

[invergowrie arab]

Even the goal was shite 

[BFTD]

16 minutes ago, Raidernation said:

By Christ you’re boring and repetitive as fuckkk, take it to the politics forum

However, it's pretty funny considering that, since his heating bill went up, he's started virtue signalling about the plight of people worse off than him  

[J_Stewart]

Can you set off the fire alarm? Constantly? Like every half hour. b*****ds don’t deserve sleep. 

Soz brutha, but even after the rudeness, I’d still rather they dicked the Welsh, tbh.

[Jacky1990]

46 minutes ago, Ewan8472 said:

How did we overload our midfield ?

Sorry, by overload I mean overloading in terms of giving McGregor and Gilmour too much to do. In terms of both had to cover out wide and in the middle  while McGinn played too far forward.