Scotland v Ukraine

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Bairnardo said:

I said similar, and was wildly wrong about a far better player, when it was Alaba going up against O'Donnell. He has more than proved that he is reliable, even if he isnt fashionable in comparison to the left side of our defence.

Its all about opinions mate, if it is O'Donnell that plays i hope he does well (of course). Hes got it in him to put in a good defensive performance. Hes played some good games for us theres no denying that. But also hes got it in him to give away possession constantly.

Being at home especially i think Hickey could surprise them and get them on the back foot. Also he's a far better player going forward.

[Satoshi]

34 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Historical records mean absolutely nothing.

 

In a neutral venue game between the current incarnations of Scotland and Wales, it would be a toss up. Scotland better man for man but Wales have the individual brilliance of Gareth Bale, which is exacerbated by us not having Tierney, the obvious choice to man mark him.

 

But in Cardiff with the red wall going bananas? Tough not to make them a fairly strong favourite. 

Er all records are historical. Or has nothing that has ever happened in th past relevant?

Bale used to be a good player but he isn't really one anymore. He's hardly kicked a ball at club level for years and will almost certainly not be taken on by a CL team now he is out of contract. Robertson has performed at a far higher level to him over recent years (although obviously isn't an attacker).

I'd say we were favourites against both Ukraine and Wales, but time will tell, we have already done well to get this far.

[eez-eh]

18 minutes ago, accies1874 said:

8 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

There shouldn't even be a debate about dropping O'Donnell. Is everyone forgetting him being the best player on the park against Denmark?

Can't forget something that never happened my man.

I’ll be absolutely fine with him playing but some folk on here go way too far in bigging him up as well as a reaction to the stick he gets.

[Donathan]

4 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Er all records are historical. Or has nothing that has ever happened in th past relevant?

Bale used to be a good player but he isn't really one anymore. He's hardly kicked a ball at club level for years and will almost certainly not be taken on by a CL team now he is out of contract. Robertson has performed at a far higher level to him over recent years (although obviously isn't an attacker).

I'd say we were favourites against both Ukraine and Wales, but time will tell, we have already done well to get this far.

Oh man. I really hope you don’t live to regret that comment. 

[Highlandmagar]

51 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Bit reductionist though, Scotland have been to the last 16 of the world cup 5 times (competing in 4).

They have also been to the last 8 of the Euros.

It's astonishing those saying we have never qualified from the group stage (an often brought out stat) never give the above context. Getting to the tournament itself in the past is equivalent to getting to the early knock out stages now.

But if you really think Wales have a better footballing record than scotland then fair enough, against us they have won 23...and lost 61.

Wales have gotten through every group stage they have been in 100% getting past the first round.

 

Scotland haven't gotten through anyone of their 11. 0%. So you can honestly say that when they get to finals, Wales get over the first hurdle, every time. Scotland doesn't.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, eez-eh said:

I’ll be absolutely fine with him playing but some folk on here go way too far in bigging him up as well as a reaction to the stick he gets.

This is the truth of it.

[Richey Edwards]

Don't let the excitement of Scotland playing tonight distract you from the fact that it's a disgrace that the Qatar World Cup was not boycotted.

[Ayr23]

Not teaching after lunch today so a quick get away to get the nerves settled! I've not felt like this since last June. Absolutely buzzing/nervous/feel a bit sick. Just bloody win Scotland!

[Satoshi]

12 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Oh man. I really hope you don’t live to regret that comment. 

I'm not too worried, perfectly comfortable in my assessment.

9 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar Tier 3 said:

Wales have gotten through every group stage they have been in 100% getting past the first round.

Scotland haven't gotten through anyone of their 11. 0%. So you can honestly say that when they get to finals, Wales get over the first hurdle, every time. Scotland doesn't.

Yeah but it's crap selective commentary as my previous post outlines. Wales make it to the tournament far less frequently, Scotland have made it to the last 16 of the world cup many times and the last 8 of the Euros. The head to head is ludicrously one sided. Not even the most ardent Welsh football fan surely thinks they hold a candle to Scotland when it comes to footballing records (and ditto Scottish rugby fan).

Still your thinking makes for some funny analogies. When Greece reach a final they tend to win every time, watch out Italy / Germany / Brazil / The Netherlands. 

[jamamafegan]

I'm firmly in the "beat Ukraine" camp. A slender 1-0 or a 4-0 hammering, I don't care as long as we beat them. This wanting Ukraine to win chat is nauseating and I'm surprised it's taken me this long to realise just how much of a massive penis Graeme Souness is. 

[Highlandmagar]

Just now, Satoshi said:

I'm not too worried, perfectly comfortable in my assessment.

Yeah but it's crap selective commentary as my previous post outlines. Wales make it to the tournament far less frequently, Scotland have made it to the last 16 of the world cup many times and the last 8 of the Euros. The head to head is ludicrously one sided. Not even the most ardent Welsh football fan surely thinks they hold a candle to Scotland when it comes to footballing records (and ditto Scottish rugby fan).

Still your thinking makes for some funny analogies. When Greece reach a final they tend to win every time, watch out Italy / Germany / Brazil / The Netherlands. 

And the more Scotland get to finals and fail, the bigger embarrassment it is. A rugby dominated country, with a league that has its 4 premier teams in the EFL, can outdo Scotland on the big stage, with our supposed ' bigger teams' is testament to that. History will tell you that football in Wales was convinced to players primarily from the north( Wrexham). A southern player wasn't selected until over 60 Wales internationals were played. It is also recognised that modern Welsh football was established in 1910. Scotland were years ahead . You cannot compare the records of a professional Scottish league from 1893 to primarily an amateur Welsh team.

[HIT THE CHANNEL]

1 hour ago, Jambomo said:

Yeah, there was a tweet from the SFA yesterday saying they were still valid.

Cheers mate!

[Satoshi]

1 minute ago, Highlandmagyar Tier 3 said:

And the more Scotland get to finals and fail, the bigger embarrassment it is. A rugby dominated country, with a league that has its 4 premier teams in the EFL, can outdo Scotland on the big stage, with our supposed ' bigger teams' is testament to that. History will tell you that football in Wales was convinced to players primarily from the north( Wrexham). A southern player wasn't selected until over 60 Wales internationals were played. It is also recognised that modern Welsh football was established in 1910. Scotland were years ahead . You cannot compare the records of a professional Scottish league from 1893 to primarily an amateur Welsh team.

So getting to the finals and 'failing' is a bigger embarrassment than not getting there? Given how modern football has developed, Scotland getting to the finals of the World cup is a great achievement (and the Euros a good achievement but we should qualify more often than not for a 24 team Euros).

Wales don't out do Scotland on the biggest stage though. By this reasoning Greece have outdone England over the past 50 years (by winning one competition to zero). It's a cup competition, strange results can happen and rubbish teams can go far (i.e. Wales and Iceland). Their squad has never really been comparable to ours. No criticism of them, it's a much smaller country that isn't very into football and has a dire domestic league. Scotland has a strong claim to be the most football obsessed nation on the planet with an outstanding domestic league that wildly outperforms its peer group in the sub 10m population category.

Bit of historical commentary there from the man who said historical records don't matter. Our h2h record since 1910 is still superior ofc (as well as before 1893). And honestly I don't know if what you're saying is true or not so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, they were rubbish and disorganized - and we beat them easily and repeatedly.

So scotland - better than Wales at football. An obvious conclusion everyone gets but you it seems.

[Highlandmagar]

1 minute ago, Satoshi said:

So getting to the finals and 'failing' is a bigger embarrassment than not getting there? Given how modern football has developed, Scotland getting to the finals of the World cup is a great achievement (and the Euros a good achievement but we should qualify more often than not for a 24 team Euros).

Wales don't out do Scotland on the biggest stage though. By this reasoning Greece have outdone England over the past 50 years (by winning one competition to zero). It's a cup competition, strange results can happen and rubbish teams can go far (i.e. Wales and Iceland). Their squad has never really been comparable to ours. No criticism of them, it's a much smaller country that isn't very into football and has a dire domestic league. Scotland has a strong claim to be the most football obsessed nation on the planet with an outstanding domestic league that wildly outperforms its peer group in the sub 10m population category.

Bit of historical commentary there from the man who said historical records don't matter. Our h2h record since 1910 is still superior ofc (as well as before 1893). And honestly I don't know if what you're saying is true or not so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, they were rubbish and disorganized - and we beat them easily and repeatedly.

So scotland - better than Wales at football. An obvious conclusion everyone gets but you it seems.

Taking recent times. Are Scotland better than Wales at football? I think even you can see that they aren't. Scottish national team has been dire since for decades.

[Connor7]

The day has finally arrived! Train at 1:15 gets me into Glasgow for 2:45, ditch the bags and right out on the lash.

Let’s do this Scotland, have a great day everyone.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Should we not be talking about Wales maybe after this game?

[H Wragg]

Coming up on the Radio Scotland phone in, is it OK to want Scotland to lose tonight...?

[kennie makevin]

39 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Oh man. I really hope you don’t live to regret that comment. 

It really baffles me that anyone who has been paying the slightest bit of attention to international football & Gareth Bale's contribution to it could possibly say that Scotland would be favourites if we got to Cardiff. Not saying it's impossible that we could win, but favourites ? No way !

[Satoshi]

9 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar Tier 3 said:

Taking recent times. Are Scotland better than Wales at football? I think even you can see that they aren't. Scottish national team has been dire since for decades.

Depends how you define recent I guess.

For decades or four decades? I don't really think we have been dire at all though, it's very difficult for countries our size to regularly qualify for the world cup or a 16 team Euros.

Although self hating is a passion in Scotland, and especially for Scottish football fans, even when we didn't qualify these weren't dark decades full of misery. We had some terrific campaigns including running world cup winners Italy close. And some rubbish campaigns.

We are not special, we will have ups and downs like any nation. It wasn't particularly bad or good. England losing to Iceland is more embarrassing than any result we have had in the last few decades and they seem to have got over it okay.

Some people love to hate I guess, but not me.

And agreed it's premature to talk about Wales, I was only correcting the erroneous notion they have a better footballing record than scotland. They don't, it isn't even close.

[Satoshi]

2 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

It really baffles me that anyone who has been paying the slightest bit of attention to international football & Gareth Bale's contribution to it could possibly say that Scotland would be favourites if we got to Cardiff. Not saying it's impossible that we could win, but favourites ? No way !

I think we would be favourites, Wales have a poor squad and Bale is a faded force.

Wales have had some truly crap results with him in the team too, Serbia horsed them 6-1 10 years ago. Bale is worse now than he was then, and their squad looks even weaker.