Dundee Utd v Aberdeen

[Aim Here]

54 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

There is no 'letter of the law' that dictates that Madden was correct.

There is. Approaching the stands in a manner that would likely cause a security or safety issue is explicitly listed as a cautionable offence in the FIFA laws of the game, and there's no room for discretion - a player must be cautioned in such an instance.

It would be pretty hard to argue that verbally confronting an already aggressive fan *isn't* likely to escalate the situation and, by extension, cause a security problem, especially since the stewards and police DID have to get involved.

The rules make no allowance for the player being more sinned against than sinning, as is the case here - nor should they - it's the job of the police and the stewards to handle fan misbehaviour, and players going out of their way to interact with fans in those situations - even if they're not the instigators of the incident - is only likely to make things worse, hence why the rule is there in the first place.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Aim Here

[DrewDon]

Bizarre, and quite classless, that United haven't at least apologised to Ojo in that excuse for a statement. Courts' Wenger-esque denial is an embarrassment, too. 

[Aim Here]

25 minutes ago, bpdon said:

Surprised I haven’t noticed in the thread todays incident being compared to the Hibs fanny getting physical with Tavernier at Easter road in 2019.

Fan jumps advertising and takes swipe at player. Player responds in kind and has a nibble back at the fan. Cops immediately step in and escort the fan oot the door. Everyone checks if the player is ok and ref keeps his cards in his pocket. Play on. Sensible outcome despite the player being far more aggressive in his response than Ojo was today.

In terms of the rulebook, the case there was different because Ojo ran up to the stands to confront the player. Getting involved with an incident with a fan who encroaches the pitch is not a mandatory caution. Approaching the stands in a manner which is likely to cause any kind of security incident IS.

[Dundee Hibernian]

To the actual football, I was fuming when Niskanen was replaced by Appere, who, for me by the end of the game, was my Man of the Match. Hoti too, much maligned by supporters who had never watched him as an 'Asghar signing', was very good when he came on. 

Well done, Arsène Courts.

And joking aside, how the f**k does anyone think Oor Tam could clearly see the Ojo/fan(ny) incident?

[resk]

11 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

There is. Approaching the stands in a manner that would likely cause a security or safety issue is explicitly listed as a cautionable offence in the FIFA laws of the game, and there's no room for discretion - a player must be cautioned in such an instance.

It would be pretty hard to argue that verbally confronting an already aggressive fan *isn't* likely to escalate the situation and, by extension, cause a security problem, especially since the stewards and police DID have to get involved.

The rules make no allowance for the player being more sinned against than sinning, as is the case here - nor should they - it's the job of the police and the stewards to handle fan misbehaviour, and players going out of their way to interact with fans in those situations - even if they're not the instigators of the incident - is only likely to make things worse, hence why the rule is there in the first place.

Thanks for this.  Then the second yellow for Ojo makes sense.  This seems like it's one of those situations where the ref doing what the rules tell him he has to do results in a harsh consequence - similar to Hedges against Sevco last season when he tripped Morelos in the box giving away a penalty and got a red card, as dictated by the rules (and of course plenty of incidents not involving my club).

 

[Derry Alli]

Saddened to read Courts is shit scared to call, out his own fans behaviour. 

Shithouse. 

[Ro Sham Bo]

2 hours ago, Big Shedboy said:

The United fan was totally out of line and should be banned, but Ojo was confrontational. Law says that's a yellow. Madden's only fault is being a jobsworth. United wouldn't have been screaming for a card imo.

 

 

Agree. If he'd just turned around and walked away then he'd have been fine. He should've known better and Glass has apparently said as much. 

[Dons_1988]

3 minutes ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

Agree. If he'd just turned around and walked away then he'd have been fine. He should've known better and Glass has apparently said as much. 

If someone walks up to you in the street tomorrow and shoves you in the chest then let’s see if you just turn around and walk away. 

[Goodstuff]

Logged in as first time user. I was in the very unfortunate position of being at the “segregation” part of the ETL today. Never knew what was going on down at front with the Aberdeen player but obviously there was a “stramash” happening. Tell you what i did witness though, grown men launching buckets, seats , coins, piss, spit, everything but the kitchen sink (only because there was none handy) at the vulnerable people BELOW them, many who were kids (under 10,s) in a terrified state of fear. Polis??? Yeah they were there alright, did they arrest anyone? No, no they never, not even close to it. So… 2 wrongs dont make a right but one guys temperament doesent allow for bairns to be phished on with coins seats phish or otherwise! For the record, what was that player doing running upstairs to attack a fan? And why did he lift his hands on a child?? Opinions eh??? 
Needless to say i need never post again. 

 

 

[10menwent2mow]

I'm just going to say that I'm absolutely furious at the decision to send ojo off. For me it opens an absolute fair game for supporters to assault players and have no reason not to, because the player might get sent off for having the balls to, just say he was a c**t. Horrid. Madden can f**k off. Heads gone. 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

17 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

In terms of the rulebook, the case there was different because Ojo ran up to the stands to confront the player. Getting involved with an incident with a fan who encroaches the pitch is not a mandatory caution. Approaching the stands in a manner which is likely to cause any kind of security incident IS.

He never ran towards/up to the stand. He took two steps forward towards the fan.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

3 minutes ago, Goodstuff said:

Needless to say i need never post again. 

The most sensible thing you’ve ever posted.

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, Goodstuff said:

Logged in as first time user. I was in the very unfortunate position of being at the “segregation” part of the ETL today. Never knew what was going on down at front with the Aberdeen player but obviously there was a “stramash” happening. Tell you what i did witness though, grown men launching buckets, seats , coins, piss, spit, everything but the kitchen sink (only because there was none handy) at the vulnerable people BELOW them, many who were kids (under 10,s) in a terrified state of fear. Polis??? Yeah they were there alright, did they arrest anyone? No, no they never, not even close to it. So… 2 wrongs dont make a right but one guys temperament doesent allow for bairns to be phished on with coins seats phish or otherwise! For the record, what was that player doing running upstairs to attack a fan? And why did he lift his hands on a child?? Opinions eh??? 
Needless to say i need never post again. 

 

 

[betting competition]

1 hour ago, invergowrie arab said:

Glass taking an interesting approach to man management there 

Should be backing Ojo till the hilt if the comments on BBC are correct.

[Dons_1988]

Just now, betting competition said:

Should be backing Ojo till the hilt if the comments on BBC are correct.

His comments are bizarre. Why you wouldn’t back your player here is beyond me. 

[Aim Here]

2 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

He never ran towards/up to the stand. He took two steps forward towards the fan.

Those two steps will easily count as an 'approach' within both the spirit and letter of the FIFA laws of the game, though.

It is both harsh and unfortunate, but the laws aren't there to pick the good guy and bad guy in that kind of fight, but to avoid crowd trouble and safety issues sparked off by player actions. Ojo's actions were quite likely to escalate the confrontation more and force the stewards and police to step in.

[bpdon]

In terms of the rulebook, the case there was different because Ojo ran up to the stands to confront the player. Getting involved with an incident with a fan who encroaches the pitch is not a mandatory caution. Approaching the stands in a manner which is likely to cause any kind of security incident IS.

I appreciate you are trying to shine a FIFA law light on this but it just doesn’t stack up across the 2 incidents.

Ojo took 2 steps forward to roughly the point where he stood when the fan shoved him - he didn’t run up to confront the fan.

Tavernier also went after the fan, who was off the pitch at this point, and gave the fan a good shove and a verbal tirade. Nobody was screaming for Tavernier to be booked.

[10menwent2mow]

This is really a nonsense discussion. Saying Madden followed the rules is the best one I've seen. Aye, if a rangers or Celtic player gets sent off for that in an a rangers Vs Celtic game. I'll accept it. Is that ever happening. Is it f**k. It's a thing that doesn't happen ever. Player gets assaulted by a fan and gets a second yellow. Hilarious. 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Just now, Aim Here said:

Those two steps will easily count as an 'approach' within both the spirit and letter of the FIFA laws of the game, though.

It is both harsh and unfortunate, but the laws aren't there to pick the good guy and bad guy in that kind of fight, but to avoid crowd trouble and safety issues sparked off by player actions. Ojo's actions were quite likely to escalate the confrontation more and force the stewards and police to step in.

The polis did step in right enough. Unfortunately it was in the wrong stand.

[bennett]

10 minutes ago, bpdon said:

I appreciate you are trying to shine a FIFA law light on this but it just doesn’t stack up across the 2 incidents.

Ojo took 2 steps forward to roughly the point where he stood when the fan shoved him - he didn’t run up to confront the fan.

Tavernier also went after the fan, who was off the pitch at this point, and gave the fan a good shove and a verbal tirade. Nobody was screaming for Tavernier to be booked.

Just for the compliance officer...