Public Services or Going Private

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, Clown Job said:

The Tories break public services on purpose so they can sell it off to the private sector 

I’d like to see Starmer make a statement to the effect that any public services privatised between now and the next GE will be brought back into public ownership without compensation.

 

[101]

2 hours ago, steelmen said:

The NHS needs to get back to its roots, being a service for people who are genuinely ill, not some influencer who has a wonky nose and feels depressed about it. for the amount of money it gets there has to be some amount of wastage.

Difficult to do this, if you have an ultra rare illness should the NHS spend thousands if not a million pounds on getting an expert and new equipment in to deal with a very sick person? 

Or do you mean stop all surgery that is cosmetic? I imagine that would also be difficult say you get hit by a car and your face is fucked they would get a proper doc in rather than just doing their best to make all the bits work.

 

A properly funded and staffed NHS should be able to deal with everything, indeed I think there should be an ability to pay for elective surgery in NHS facilities like you could in an NHS funded Dentist. The current inability to properly tax businesses and wealthy individuals is crippling the effectiveness, whilst leaving the EU has contributed to an already depleted workforce and a lack of capacity for preventive medicine makes urgent care like you experienced slow and cumbersome. Sadly it's much harder than stop treating sad people with funny noses.

[Dawson Park Boy]

3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Do private hospitals use NHS equipment, doctors, surgeons or administrative staff?

They certainly used to.

Which means you are doing nothing more than queue hopping and forcing bigger and bigger waiting lists on everyone else.

If you want a health service where money buys you the privilege of jumping the queue at the expense of others who have a greater need but lack the finances then that's fair enough.

Not in my case.

The surgeon was totally private with no NHS involvement and the hospital was independent.

 

[invergowrie arab]

On tenterhooks to find out what reforms the NHS should make to bring down cataract waiting lists.

[101]

1 hour ago, invergowrie arab said:

On tenterhooks to find out what reforms the NHS should make to bring down cataract waiting lists.

Perhaps that's why politics here is eye gougingly bad

[Dawson Park Boy]

7 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

On tenterhooks to find out what reforms the NHS should make to bring down cataract waiting lists.

NHS Scotland already pays for patients to be dealt with privately but it’s still not meeting demand.

This could be expended or indeed, as suggested, there should be the ability to pay for elective surgery in NHS facilities.

This would bring a lot more money into the system. A win win - patients pay less than totally private and the NHS gets more money to increase capacity. 

[Paco]

NHS Scotland already pays for patients to be dealt with privately but it’s still not meeting demand.
This could be expended or indeed, as suggested, there should be the ability to pay for elective surgery in NHS facilities.
This would bring a lot more money into the system. A win win - patients pay less than totally private and the NHS gets more money to increase capacity. 

This is one of those things that sounds in theory like a great idea, but the reality is paying customers would very quickly be prioritised when there are limited numbers of staff, or theatres, or equipment. I’m not convinced at all it would do much to help, aside from a small help to budgets.

I do however agree there are a small number of elective procedures that certainly shouldn’t be done on the NHS except in rare cases.

[Dawson Park Boy]

10 minutes ago, Paco said:

This is one of those things that sounds in theory like a great idea, but the reality is paying customers would very quickly be prioritised when there are limited numbers of staff, or theatres, or equipment. I’m not convinced at all it would do much to help, aside from a small help to budgets.

I do however agree there are a small number of elective procedures that certainly shouldn’t be done on the NHS except in rare cases.

Quite a reasoned reply.

You could well be right.

[Florentine_Pogen]

2 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Quite a reasoned reply.

You could well be right.

Quite a reasoned reply.

You could well be right.

[Dawson Park Boy]

2 hours ago, Florentine_Pogen said:

Quite a reasoned reply.

You could well be right.

Okay then. He pointed out that once the door was opened to paying customers in the NHS, it could well bring about a two tier system especially when resources are severely limited. Fair point.

He did however agree that some elective procedures could be dealt with privately.

So what’s your take?

Edited October 14, 2022 by Dawson Park Boy
Spelling

[Karl Lanes]

I went to a private school, and I didn't really like the environment there. Best friends in childhood were guys who went to public schools.

I would like to add something. The workload at the private school was quite large, surprisingly often I had to write essays on various topics. Sometimes in high school I did not have enough time for this, and I used different services like with it help I have a good marks in college.  There I had no problems receiving reviews for my essays in a short time, which helped me keep up with my studies.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Karl Lanes

[Aufc]

I went to a private school, and I didn't really like the environment there. Best friends in childhood were guys who went to public schools.

Same. Don’t see any of my private school friends. However, I wish I had made more of it. I was obviously very lucky to go to a school like that but I was generally just interested in playing footie with my local mates. Never took part in any extra curricular shit which is really what you are paying for.

[alta-pete]

Thread bump.

Whenever the phrase 'Public Services' is uttered it seems to be framed as being understaffed, underfunded, long delays, waiting lists, I'm sure none of this is earth shattering to you.

I have had a number of experiences with Public Services in the last six months or so that actually paint a very different experience:

Had cause to see my GP. Apart from the ballache of being told nothing available today but phone back in at 08.30 and we'll see what we can do, I did and I won a golden ticket, got seen that following day.

A minor issue had me phoning NHS 111 in the middle of the night. Admittedly I was on the phone for about 2 hours, mostly on hold, while I went through the call handler, a nurse and then a doctor but if I'm going to spend 2 hours in pain, I think I'd rather do that in my bed than in a hospital waiting room. Was then told to get myself to the Out of Hours Service at FVRH, which I did. Seen straightaway, dispatched within 15mins max with some antibiotics and what the doctor described as 'real' painkillers. The follow up to that was a MRI Scan that was carried out within the week.  

Moved house, needed to update my address on my driving Licence. All done online and a new one issued within a week.

Passport nearing expiry and we're off in holiday in 3 months. Passport Office routinely warn of an up-to 12 week wait for a new one to be issued; a bit neat for our holiday. New one arrived in a fortnight.

And earlier in the week one of our neighbours caught some gadgie trying doors in the street on their cctv. Polis were up almost immediately and that they are circling now in such regulairty it seems we have our own private security detail.   

I am an irregular user of Scotrail but whenever I do, the trains are always clean and running to time.

Are our public services and their staff being unfairly maligned or am I just lucky?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

4 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

Thread bump.

Whenever the phrase 'Public Services' is uttered it seems to be framed as being understaffed, underfunded, long delays, waiting lists, I'm sure none of this is earth shattering to you.

I have had a number of experiences with Public Services in the last six months or so that actually paint a very different experience:

Had cause to see my GP. Apart from the ballache of being told nothing available today but phone back in at 08.30 and we'll see what we can do, I did and I won a golden ticket, got seen that following day.

A minor issue had me phoning NHS 111 in the middle of the night. Admittedly I was on the phone for about 2 hours, mostly on hold, while I went through the call handler, a nurse and then a doctor but if I'm going to spend 2 hours in pain, I think I'd rather do that in my bed than in a hospital waiting room. Was then told to get myself to the Out of Hours Service at FVRH, which I did. Seen straightaway, dispatched within 15mins max with some antibiotics and what the doctor described as 'real' painkillers. The follow up to that was a MRI Scan that was carried out within the week.  

Moved house, needed to update my address on my driving Licence. All done online and a new one issued within a week.

Passport nearing expiry and we're off in holiday in 3 months. Passport Office routinely warn of an up-to 12 week wait for a new one to be issued; a bit neat for our holiday. New one arrived in a fortnight.

And earlier in the week one of our neighbours caught some gadgie trying doors in the street on their cctv. Polis were up almost immediately and that they are circling now in such regulairty it seems we have our own private security detail.   

I am an irregular user of Scotrail but whenever I do, the trains are always clean and running to time.

Are our public services and their staff being unfairly maligned or am I just lucky?

Public services give the impression of being monumentally shite because very few people ever take to Social Media or the like for any other reason than them having a bad experience. Folk tend not to post up or talk about services they received which were either good, or simply met expectation. People malign public services for many reasons, sometimes the service isn't great, mostly I think it's because they have completely unrealistic expectations and think a Council Tax rise means they should get their own personal binman. 

In terms of public service experience: 

• GP - Absolutely no issues at all on the tiny handful of occasions I've needed them. My partner has a long term condition so she sees them more often, but again absolutely no issues with them at all
• Hospital - Last time for me was 2012, after dislocating my ankles playing fives. I'll assume my experience was good as I was on morphine so everything seemed amazing. My partner's experience maybe not as good although the consultant she's been waiting on is in a really specialised area so there's a long list
• Police - N/A
• GOVUK stuff - the website is generally fine tbh. 
• Local Council - Average. I work for them so I know full well what areas are total binfires and what aren't. Their internal and external IT systems are shite
• Public Transport - Not been on a bus for years, used Scotrail a few times for training courses in Glasgow and had no problems or delays at all. 
• DWP - Largely shite, which is not surprising. 
• SSS - Awful. I'll give them some leeway as they are still a new body in the scheme of things, but dealing with them through work is complete and utter torture. However once they've ironed out these flaws they should be OK. 

 

 

[carpetmonster]

18 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

Public services give the impression of being monumentally shite because very few people ever take to Social Media or the like for any other reason than them having a bad experience. Folk tend not to post up or talk about services they received which were either good, or simply met expectation. People malign public services for many reasons, sometimes the service isn't great, mostly I think it's because they have completely unrealistic expectations and think a Council Tax rise means they should get their own personal binman. 

In terms of public service experience: 

• GP - Absolutely no issues at all on the tiny handful of occasions I've needed them. My partner has a long term condition so she sees them more often, but again absolutely no issues with them at all
• Hospital - Last time for me was 2012, after dislocating my ankles playing fives. I'll assume my experience was good as I was on morphine so everything seemed amazing. My partner's experience maybe not as good although the consultant she's been waiting on is in a really specialised area so there's a long list
• Police - N/A
• GOVUK stuff - the website is generally fine tbh. 
• Local Council - Average. I work for them so I know full well what areas are total binfires and what aren't. Their internal and external IT systems are shite
• Public Transport - Not been on a bus for years, used Scotrail a few times for training courses in Glasgow and had no problems or delays at all. 
• DWP - Largely shite, which is not surprising. 
• SSS - Awful. I'll give them some leeway as they are still a new body in the scheme of things, but dealing with them through work is complete and utter torture. However once they've ironed out these flaws they should be OK. 

 

 

Not restricted to councils. I’m trying to pay up my NI stamp currently and even tho I can see how much I owe by logging in to my gov.Uk account I have to fill in a form, physically mail it to Newcastle and await a letter back before I can square them up. Seems mental given I’ve been doing tax returns online for a decade. Asked if I can email them the form as a PDF and no, because ‘the systems aren’t set up for that’ either. Frustration in the lady’s voice so palpable I probably inhaled some of it over the phone line. 

[Donathan]

Part of the issue with the NHS is that it was initially designed as a safety net to ensure that nobody dies or spends years suffering because they can't afford to fund their own treatment for whatever condition(s) they happen to be suffering from. It has never and will never be well enough funded so that hypochondriac parents can be down the GP surgery getting seen every time little Johnny sneezes.

 

The British public seem to want an all-encompassing state funded healthcare system but are not willing to pay Scandinavian tax rates that would enable that. The end result of that is that said hypochondriacs are clogging up the waiting lists and meaning that those in genuine need of treatment are waiting several years in many cases. Then you've got the worst of both worlds with high levels of spending and poor outcomes.

 

The UK should either raise taxes to properly fund the NHS, or turn it into a means tested service where only life saving emergency treatment is offered free of charge.

 

Plenty of other countries have a hybrid system and achieve longer life expectancy.

 

If your employer subscribes to Vitality or BUPA then you'd be mad not to use it.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Donathan

[Leith Green]

1 hour ago, Donathan said:

Part of the issue with the NHS is that it was initially designed as a safety net to ensure that nobody dies or spends years suffering because they can't afford to fund their own treatment for whatever condition(s) they happen to be suffering from. It has never and will never be well enough funded so that hypochondriac parents can be down the GP surgery getting seen every time little Johnny sneezes.

 

The British public seem to want an all-encompassing state funded healthcare system but are not willing to pay Scandinavian tax rates that would enable that. The end result of that is that said hypochondriacs are clogging up the waiting lists and meaning that those in genuine need of treatment are waiting several years in many cases. Then you've got the worst of both worlds with high levels of spending and poor outcomes.

 

The UK should either raise taxes to properly fund the NHS, or turn it into a means tested service where only life saving emergency treatment is offered free of charge.

 

Plenty of other countries have a hybrid system and achieve longer life expectancy.

 

If your employer subscribes to Vitality or BUPA then you'd be mad not to use it.

Theres so much bullshit in this post its laughable.

[Donathan]

8 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

Theres so much bullshit in this post its laughable.

Do elaborate…

[Leith Green]

3 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Do elaborate…

hypochondriac parents can be down the GP surgery getting seen every time little Johnny sneezes - Daily Mail headline klaxon (and makes no sense).

hypochondriacs are clogging up the waiting lists and meaning that those in genuine need of treatment are waiting several years in many cases. - Daily Mail headline klaxon

The UK should either raise taxes to properly fund the NHS, or turn it into a means tested service where only life saving emergency treatment is offered free of charge. First statement wont happen, second statement is unworkable, third statement is laughable.

Plenty of other countries have a hybrid system and achieve longer life expectancy. I think you are mixing up correlation and causation here.

If your employer subscribes to Vitality or BUPA then you'd be mad not to use it. Is there any suggestion from anyone on this thread that people should "not use" PMI?

There is a reason I just summarised by saying it was mostly bullshit.......................

[Donathan]

5 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

hypochondriac parents can be down the GP surgery getting seen every time little Johnny sneezes - Daily Mail headline klaxon (and makes no sense).

hypochondriacs are clogging up the waiting lists and meaning that those in genuine need of treatment are waiting several years in many cases. - Daily Mail headline klaxon

The UK should either raise taxes to properly fund the NHS, or turn it into a means tested service where only life saving emergency treatment is offered free of charge. First statement wont happen, second statement is unworkable, third statement is laughable.

Plenty of other countries have a hybrid system and achieve longer life expectancy. I think you are mixing up correlation and causation here.

If your employer subscribes to Vitality or BUPA then you'd be mad not to use it. Is there any suggestion from anyone on this thread that people should "not use" PMI?

There is a reason I just summarised by saying it was mostly bullshit.......................

 

On point 1, can you explain why you think it doesn't make sense?

 

On the third point, there are only two statements in that sentence, not three.

 

Point 4, correlation doesn't equal causation but you cannot seriously suggest that a sub-optimal approach to healthcare isn't a negative prognostic factor for national life expectancy. The main goal of any health system should be to increase life expectancy and bosses should be measured on this one factor.

 

On point 5, on the early pages of this thread there are multiple posters suggesting it is immoral to make use of PMI as it drags resources away from the NHS and increases the queue for others.