Which Clubs in the Highland League in Five Seasons' Time?

[LongTimeLurker]

Looks that way for the Shirey Pirey anyway. People lose interest in pumping in silly amounts of money so they can bounce back quickly when it starts to look like a lost cause. On the plus side for Brechin though there are relatively few potential title challengers in the HL catchment so they probably will make the playoffs sometimes. Problem being whether they can match what will soon be emerging from the WoS in the LL catchment.

[welshbairn]

It was a bit of a culture shock visiting Glebe Parke, that huge stand in the wrong place and all the security bods marching about. I'd imagine the fixed costs are pretty hard to cover on Highland League income.

Edited April 20, 2022 by welshbairn

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Looks that way for the Shirey Pirey anyway. People lose interest in pumping in silly amounts of money so they can bounce back quickly when it starts to look like a lost cause. On the plus side for Brechin though there are relatively few potential title challengers in the HL catchment so they probably will make the playoffs sometimes. Problem being whether they can match what will soon be emerging from the WoS in the LL catchment.

That will be the problem, imo.

[theoriginalhedge]

On 20/04/2022 at 15:46, welshbairn said:

It was a bit of a culture shock visiting Glebe Parke, that huge stand in the wrong place and all the security bods marching about. I'd imagine the fixed costs are pretty hard to cover on Highland League income.

Interesting perception . What brings you to that conclusion ? 

[theoriginalhedge]

On 20/04/2022 at 14:00, virginton said:

Relegated clubs from the SPFL lose their parachute payments over time. East Stirling and Berwick have not got closer to returning after their first season down - despite some Walter Mitty throwing money in at ES for a while. 

I wouldn't say they've no chance at all of returning to the SPFL, but they've blown their best one and it'll only get tougher from here. Especially as the Lowland League eventually flushes all the turds out of that setup. 

Aye and replaces them with colt teams ? 

[welshbairn]

41 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

Interesting perception . What brings you to that conclusion ? 

Just that the scale of the infrastructure looks like it could be more expensive to maintain, and I'm assuming the security people are on a long term contract. They're a rare sight for run of the mill league games, don't think I've ever seen one at Grant Street. I liked the big stand by the way, just a bit quirky having it behind the goal, I get how there was nowhere else it would fit though.

[theoriginalhedge]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Just that the scale of the infrastructure looks like it could be more expensive to maintain, and I'm assuming the security people are on a long term contract. They're a rare sight for run of the mill league games, don't think I've ever seen one at Grant Street. I liked the big stand by the way, just a bit quirky having it behind the goal, I get how there was nowhere else it would fit though.

Basically the stadium , although very tidy is aging and does require some upgrading. The club are currently drawing up plans for this with the aim of making  it a community facility to be used on a daily basis by the many groups/ clubs in the town.   It will take a bit of time to put all the plans in place but hopefully it will serve Brechin City and the whole town well in the future. 

As for the stewards, they are all local folk , mainly giving their time to help the club for minimal expense.  This was a required licencing criteria when in the SPFL as an alternative to policing. Although it is obviously not required in the HL , I think the club decided to keep it in place to help train up some newer recruits should we be in a position to return to the SPFL. 

 

[tarapoa]

Should there be more than just 0.5 of a place for grabs every season in the SPFL?

The self-preservation it offers for those already in the senior leagues comes back to somewhat bite them on the backside if they have a bad season and drop out.

Most nations with true pyramid structures have a lot of movement when you drop down to the 3rd tier and below.  Ours gets credit because half a place is better than the nothing that was there previously.

 

[Jacksgranda]

15 minutes ago, tarapoa said:

Should there be more than just 0.5 of a place for grabs every season in the SPFL?

The self-preservation it offers for those already in the senior leagues comes back to somewhat bite them on the backside if they have a bad season and drop out.

Most nations with true pyramid structures have a lot of movement when you drop down to the 3rd tier and below.  Ours gets credit because half a place is better than the nothing that was there previously.

 

Most nations with a true pyramid structure have much bigger leagues to get spat out of.

Having said that the Irish Premiership has 1.5 relegation places out of 12.

[Jimmy Shaker]

20 minutes ago, tarapoa said:

Should there be more than just 0.5 of a place for grabs every season in the SPFL?

Given that nearly every team that's been promoted/elected/created - Inverness, Ross County, Peterhead, Cove, Kelty - have all immediately proven to be better than whatever was in front of them in the bottom tier and been promoted up at least one level - with Edinburgh again trying to - and the sides punted out - East Stirlingshire, Berwick and Brechin - haven't come back at the first (or more) attempts, you'd have to say yes. Automatic binning for last place. If nothing else, the idea there's no teams good enough waiting to come up is long dead. These aren't even the early days of the pyramid any more - if after all these years a club is still down the bottom, its time is up. Montrose worked it out pretty fucking quick after their scare. Others either can't or won't. 

[Jacksgranda]

[Dev]

1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

Most nations with a true pyramid structure have much bigger leagues to get spat out of.

Having said that the Irish Premiership has 1.5 relegation places out of 12.

Wales has 2 out of 12.

[theoriginalhedge]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Shaker said:

Given that nearly every team that's been promoted/elected/created - Inverness, Ross County, Peterhead, Cove, Kelty - have all immediately proven to be better than whatever was in front of them in the bottom tier and been promoted up at least one level - with Edinburgh again trying to - and the sides punted out - East Stirlingshire, Berwick and Brechin - haven't come back at the first (or more) attempts, you'd have to say yes. Automatic binning for last place. If nothing else, the idea there's no teams good enough waiting to come up is long dead. These aren't even the early days of the pyramid any more - if after all these years a club is still down the bottom, its time is up. Montrose worked it out pretty fucking quick after their scare. Others either can't or won't. 

Pretty much spot on especially the Montrose part. 

Unfortunately we found out 5 years too late where complacency , stubbornness and a bit of arrogance  leads you.  

Hopefully we are now on a much firmer foundation to move forward. 

[Gordon EF]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Shaker said:

Given that nearly every team that's been promoted/elected/created - Inverness, Ross County, Peterhead, Cove, Kelty - have all immediately proven to be better than whatever was in front of them in the bottom tier and been promoted up at least one level - with Edinburgh again trying to - and the sides punted out - East Stirlingshire, Berwick and Brechin - haven't come back at the first (or more) attempts, you'd have to say yes. Automatic binning for last place. If nothing else, the idea there's no teams good enough waiting to come up is long dead. These aren't even the early days of the pyramid any more - if after all these years a club is still down the bottom, its time is up. Montrose worked it out pretty fucking quick after their scare. Others either can't or won't. 

There are plenty obstacles in the path of this (chief amongst them self-preservation and short-sightedness which is endemic from top to bottom in Scottish football), but we really should be aiming for a structure that relegates the bottom two from the SPFL and promoted both Highland and Lowland champions automatically.

It would massively reduce the dreaded tier 5 -> 4 bottleneck for both clubs who've never played in the SPFL and clubs who find themselves dropping out of it. The biggest fear about dropping into tier 5 right now is how difficult it is to get back up.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Gordon EF

[theoriginalhedge]

2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

There are plenty obstacles in the path of this (chief amongst them self-preservation and short-sightedness which is endemic from top to bottom in Scottish football), but we really should be aiming for a structure that relegates the bottom two from the SPFL and promoted both Highland and Lowland champions automatically.

It would massively reduce the dreaded tier 5 -> 4 bottleneck for both clubs who've never played in the SPFL and clubs who find themselves dropping out of it. The biggest fear about dropping into tier 5 right now is how difficult it is to get back up.

I think that is a bit drastic. The bottom club , yes definitely .  The  HL/LL play off winners should then go up automatically with the loser playing off against team 41 .

Just my opinion though. 

[Gordon EF]

41 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

I think that is a bit drastic. The bottom club , yes definitely .  The  HL/LL play off winners should then go up automatically with the loser playing off against team 41 .

Just my opinion though. 

That would be progress. I just think that fundamentally, for a pyramid to work and have integrity, all champions (at every level) who're eligible to play in the league above, should be promoted.

[theoriginalhedge]

15 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

That would be progress. I just think that fundamentally, for a pyramid to work and have integrity, all champions (at every level) who're eligible to play in the league above, should be promoted.

Aye but when 2 league champions are trying to get into one league it surely swings the unfairness to the SPFL clubs ? 

[Gordon EF]

25 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

Aye but when 2 league champions are trying to get into one league it surely swings the unfairness to the SPFL clubs ? 

I don't see how. This is what happens in other pyramid structures, including in England.

[welshbairn]

29 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

Aye but when 2 league champions are trying to get into one league it surely swings the unfairness to the SPFL clubs ? 

I think they'll have to expand the size of the bottom SPFL tier before they have 2 automatic demotions. 20% of clubs getting relegated without a playoff seems steep.

[LongTimeLurker]

Easy enough just to combine League One with League Two and expand the number of relegation and promotion playoff slots to keep the season interesting. Won't happen any time soon but eventually the lower division clubs might come around to the idea that it is in their interests to make it easier to bounce back.