Which Clubs in the Highland League in Five Seasons' Time?

[Dev]

Tayport licenced and promoted to the Highland League.

How would that go down with Brora, Wick, Clach etc?

[invergowrie arab]

29 minutes ago, Dev said:

Tayport licenced and promoted to the Highland League.

How would that go down with Brora, Wick, Clach etc?

Fine presumably given they signed up to be part of a national league pyramid.

A journey to Tayport is no different to a journey to Cove for these clubs.

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

Tayport licenced and promoted to the Highland League.

How would that go down with Brora, Wick, Clach etc?

No problem. As has been pointed out many times before, it's only one away fixture a year and a new place to visit for supporters.

[LongTimeLurker]

8 hours ago, Dev said:

Tayport licenced and promoted to the Highland League.

How would that go down with Brora, Wick, Clach etc?

On the hook for it now and theoretically at least there's even scope for a further southward drift of the HL catchment depending on who the Midland League choose to admit as new members in future.

Timing was everything on Midlands League entry and Lochee United & co giving up on the notion of the east region being a second east feeder to the LL just as the details of the north pyramid were being finalised. Forfar West End's EoS application appeared to help break the logjam in that regard.

Brechin City are the most likely possible complication on having reasonably neatly defined feeder league geography in future but they need to get promoted again and subsequently relegated for that scenario to unfold according to the rulebook that is now in place.

[Cyclizine]

On 14/03/2022 at 12:57, Snafu said:

The North Superleague has a much higher standard both as clubs and the standard of player as do most of the other clubs that would make up a 1st Division than anything from the NCL. Back in the day Inverness City had moved to the North Juniors from the NCL for that very reason.

Turriff and Strathspey would probably opt to go back to the North Juniors and the likes of Lossiemouth, Clach, Keith and Huntly would also likely opt for the North Juniors if they dropped down simply for more competitive games. Fort William, times have changed a lot since they last played outside the HL and maybe they too might see the Superleague as the place to be if they want to test themselves and bounce back with any credibility.

Probably a need to join up the lower north junior leagues and the NCL, having only one SFA licensed club forever finishing 3rd or 4th along with a hand full of clubs that are only one place above the Inverness Amateur summer leagues is a waste of time in the pyramid to expect they will be up to any HL standard in structure and on the pitch and there will be many years when this league won't be represented in the playoffs down to this unless there is some massive change to the structure below the Highland League like merging the two league bodies or having some worthwhile incentive that would encourage clubs to move on mass to the NCL like the East Juniors did shifting to the East of Scotland League. There are a few ambitious clubs in the North Juniors (how many are semi pro?) but most are quite happy to play at this current level and stay put especially if they share a town with or have a HL club nearby.

Once the top Midlands League clubs catches up with the HL criteria these questions plus others not mentioned such as a HL 2nd Division will be answered.

 

On 14/03/2022 at 14:01, Jimmy Shaker said:

Huntly and Keith would have little choice to go into the North Juniors, given the players they usually get come from Aberdeen. Selling the NCL to their squads would be all but impossible, given they're already struggling to convince Toonsers to come out that far. Huntly are starting to pick out talent from Moray, however, so they may have a plan. 

Lossie, Forres, Clach and the like, tho. Would a team rather 20-odd Superleague games and a playoff against Loch Ness or whoever, or 18 less-challenging NCL ties and then two hard playoff games against a battle-hardened Culter?

@NiallFH (NCL fixture secretary and St Duthus chairman) has already said they'd agreed the Spey would be the boundary - clubs to the west will be NCL territory and east NRJFA. This would be for clubs coming down from the HFL, clubs currently west of the Spey in the NRJFA wouldn't be expected to move, but could if they wanted.

[Cyclizine]

15 hours ago, Dev said:

Tayport licenced and promoted to the Highland League.

How would that go down with Brora, Wick, Clach etc?

It doesn't take that much longer to get to the Dundee area from the Highlands as to get to Aberdeen. You go down the A9 to Dundee, not via Aberdeen.

[welshbairn]

18 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

 

@NiallFH (NCL fixture secretary and St Duthus chairman) has already said they'd agreed the Spey would be the boundary - clubs to the west will be NCL territory and east NRJFA. This would be for clubs coming down from the HFL, clubs currently west of the Spey in the NRJFA wouldn't be expected to move, but could if they wanted.

The clubs got to choose where they'd go if demoted last July, afaik the Spey isn't a fixed thing like the Tay was supposed to be. 

[Cyclizine]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The clubs got to choose where they'd go if demoted last July, afaik the Spey isn't a fixed thing like the Tay was supposed to be. 

Looking back, Niall was still talking about the Spey being a boundary back in September last year, although he also mentioned nominating a league, so there's obviously some leeway. Perhaps more a boundary for new teams?

[FairWeatherFan]

The rule as written into the HL Play-off

There was an idea of what the boundaries may well be, but in practice there aren't any hard boundary lines anymore.

There's only an agreement between the WoSFL and EoSFL left as far as i'm aware.

[Samsonite]

Sorry just going back to the NCL teams in the North Cup my understanding is they are free to enter but they choose not to as the NCL season doesn't start until after start of the cup and they struggle to put a team out due to the vast majority of players playing in their local amatuer leagues.

[Jimmy Shaker]

Yeah, the North Cup usually starts in July which doesn't help with NCL sides who see their season start in August or whatever. 

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Samsonite said:

Sorry just going back to the NCL teams in the North Cup my understanding is they are free to enter but they choose not to as the NCL season doesn't start until after start of the cup and they struggle to put a team out due to the vast majority of players playing in their local amatuer leagues.

That makes sense. Maybe the HL could squeeze more league fixtures in early on and start the cup later? It's a bit boring just playing the same old teams.

[Burnieman]

6 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The rule as written into the HL Play-off

There was an idea of what the boundaries may well be, but in practice there aren't any hard boundary lines anymore.

There's only an agreement between the WoSFL and EoSFL left as far as i'm aware.

I believe there's also an agreement between EOSFL and Midland League, which was brought about when Broughty, North End, FWE and Tayport all applied for the EoSFL last year, possibly based on Dundee postcodes.

Perth seems to be fair game after Letham joined the Midland League after being rejected by the EoS.

[Dev]

How about Cowdenbeath, as they are looking like heading into the next Play-Offs?

As they are SPFL 2 they can nominate which league they would wish to drop down to - LL or HL. Does either League have the right to reject them? If Yes then does the other league also have the right to reject them?

Edited March 16, 2022 by Dev
.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

How about Cowdenbeath, as they are looking like heading into the next Play-Offs?

As they are SPFL 2 they can nominate which league they would wish to drop down to - LL or HL. Does either League have the right to reject them? If Yes then does the other league also have the right to reject them?

As said above:

On 15/03/2022 at 14:49, LongTimeLurker said:

 If there is a disagreement between the club and the leagues involved over the issue then the SFA board ultimately get to decide.

Brechin was likely the last marginal team for a while, for most it's pretty straightforward. Cowdenbeath for example, 12 miles from the Central Belt.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

How about Cowdenbeath, as they are looking like heading into the next Play-Offs?

As they are SPFL 2 they can nominate which league they would wish to drop down to - LL or HL. Does either League have the right to reject them? If Yes then does the other league also have the right to reject them?

If it isn't agreed amicably between the parties concerned it goes to the SFA board to decide, so no league can outright reject Club 42. Seriously doubt Cowdenbeath would wind up anywhere other than the LL though. It's easy to come up with bizarre hypotheticals on this but that rule change revolves around what happened to Brechin, and what might happen in future to Montrose, Forfar and Arbroath.

The SFA were pushing for that change right through the PWG process and definitely appeared to be backing the notion of the east region complete with Tayside clubs as an LL rather than an HL feeder in the minutes that were linked on here. That's water under the bridge now because they were only able to engineer the removal of the line of latitude rule after the Midlands League had already emerged as an HL feeder.  If the sequence of events had gone the other way the EoS would probably have had to bite the bullet and expand out to Brechin Vics.

[welshbairn]

8 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The SFA were pushing for that change right through the PWG process and definitely appeared to be backing the notion of the east region complete with Tayside clubs as an LL rather than an HL feeder in the minutes that were linked on here.

I still don't understand their motive unless it's some weird revenge on behalf of Ken Ferguson, the Midland League basically put the whole issue to bed, only for the SFA to resurrect it. The north/south imbalance is big enough without making it worse, I really don't get their thinking at all.

[Marten]

23 hours ago, Burnieman said:

I believe there's also an agreement between EOSFL and Midland League, which was brought about when Broughty, North End, FWE and Tayport all applied for the EoSFL last year, possibly based on Dundee postcodes.

Perth seems to be fair game after Letham joined the Midland League after being rejected by the EoS.

Yes, Dundee postcodes are seen as "ML territory" with KY postcodes being "EOSFL territory".

I'm not entirely sure on what has been agreed for Perth (PH postcodes), even when ignoring Letham there are clubs with PH postcodes in both leagues. Blairgowrie, Coupar Angus & Scone Thistle are in the ML while Jeanfield Swifts, Kinnoull & Luncarty are in the EOSFL. Scone & Luncarty are also on the "wrong side" when looking at the Tay boundary. Apparently the EOSFL & ML discussed Letham and the former made no objections to the latter accepting Letham.

Also a part of the PH postcode area (which is massive) would more be NCL territory, like Fort William.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Marten

[Burnieman]

21 hours ago, welshbairn said:

I still don't understand their motive unless it's some weird revenge on behalf of Ken Ferguson, the Midland League basically put the whole issue to bed, only for the SFA to resurrect it. The north/south imbalance is big enough without making it worse, I really don't get their thinking at all.

Petrie had a bee in his bonnet about it and wouldn't let it drop, he then saw an opportunity created by the LL accepting B teams and pushed it through, basically blackmailing them.

As to why he actually cares, who knows.

[Sergeant Wilson]

On 16/03/2022 at 19:02, welshbairn said:

I still don't understand their motive unless it's some weird revenge on behalf of Ken Ferguson, the Midland League basically put the whole issue to bed, only for the SFA to resurrect it. The north/south imbalance is big enough without making it worse, I really don't get their thinking at all.

Good luck working it out.