Which Clubs in the Lowland League in Five Seasons' Time?

[Gimme]

Don't know of any SPFL grounds where grass banking is in place. (maybe Kelty but they have a path at the top)

Cowdenbeath, unless behind the goals is out of bounds during matches.

[Ginaro]

8 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Worth bearing in mind prorege is a Cowdenbeath fan, who may not be heartbroken at the thought of Club 42 playoffs not happening due to a technicality. Some of the stuff he posted about the last set of playoffs certainly appeared consistent with that.

Even without the grass banking, Bonnyrigg would have a decent enough capacity for League Two. One side and one end has hard standing with plenty of cover. 

Fair enough - not taking his post as gospel, I know a safety certificate is needed but of course what changes are required is up to the council. Prorege also mentioned covered seats but unless they are essential for a safety certificate then they shouldn't be required as it's not a SFA licensing criteria or SPFL rule.

1 hour ago, Cyclizine said:

Borough Briggs?

1 hour ago, Gimme said:

Cowdenbeath, unless behind the goals is out of bounds during matches.

True, though perhaps the steepness and size is the issue with Ainslie Park and would be at New Dundas Park - Elgin have concrete terracing on the bottom half and one half of Cowdenbeath's grass doesn't seem that steep (or like you say it's perhaps out of bounds).

 

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Ginaro said:

Prorege also mentioned covered seats but unless they are essential for a safety certificate then they shouldn't be required as it's not a SFA licensing criteria or SPFL rule.

Are you sure about that, thought that was a rule even at Highland League level? The HL website isn't letting me check.

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Are you sure about that, thought that was a rule even at Highland League level? The HL website isn't letting me check.

You need cover for 100 to meet SFA entry level licensing, which is what is required for SPFL membership (along with 300lux floodlights and a safety certificate), I can't see anything in the SPFL rules about seating though I think all clubs have them.

[parsforlife]

On grass banking, It's as not so much banned, but given a very low capacity.

The SPFL clubs brought up,  Cowden's was always taped off, they never bothered about the odd one or two who went past the tape but there was no chance hundreds could safely have stood on it like they could on concrete,

Kelty gave auchinleck a relatively small away capacity for the Scottish cup tie,  based on that they could accommodate fans low down and high up where the ground is flat but not on the slope between.

Stranraer let pars fans stand on the banking for our scottish cup tie, but there was a bit of a deal made about the capacity for their league games for playing rangers, with the council considering the grass banking unsuitable to allow for extra capacity than the other areas would allow.

 

[The Mantis]

13 hours ago, parsforlife said:

On grass banking, It's as not so much banned, but given a very low capacity.

 

I can tell you how the two guys from Midlothian assessed Whitehill, although at the time it was their first experience of assessing a football ground as WW were the only SFA full members in Midlothian. The three sides with grass banking were counted as holding two people deep all the way round (even though they’re significantly larger than Bonnyrigg). If anybody is familiar with the small terraced bit in front of the pavilion, that was counted as 700… The covered stand holds about 130 seats. Obviously this figure would be far larger if the seats were removed.

[parsforlife]

1 hour ago, The Mantis said:

I can tell you how the two guys from Midlothian assessed Whitehill, although at the time it was their first experience of assessing a football ground as WW were the only SFA full members in Midlothian. The three sides with grass banking were counted as holding two people deep all the way round (even though they’re significantly larger than Bonnyrigg). If anybody is familiar with the small terraced bit in front of the pavilion, that was counted as 700… The covered stand holds about 130 seats. Obviously this figure would be far larger if the seats were removed.

2 deep makes sense,  IIRC correctly that was what kelty had,  they argued that the top of the banking should be considered a separate area,  and therefore were allowed 2 deep at the top and 2 deep at the bottom.

Green guide states areas without crush barriers can't be allowed to be more than 4 deep.  https://www.raithrovers.net/files/GuidetoSafetyatSportsGrounds.pdf

But that comes with a factor depending on how suitable the area is considered. One of those factors is ability to keep footing,  as well as cover etc.  It's easy to see how an inspector could judge grass banking as 0.5 capacity.

Surprised you would get awarded 700 for the terrace,  looks maybe 20 yards long?

Based on it being 20m,  It should only have 141,  even if it got given the highest factor.  

Either there's updated guidance or you've argued for it to be considered differently but I struggle to see how.

Edit-  terrible maths earlier 

Edited November 15, 2021 by parsforlife

[LongTimeLurker]

17 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Are you sure about that, thought that was a rule even at Highland League level? The HL website isn't letting me check.

That was my understanding as well and can remember Strathspey Thistle and Turriff doing that after they were voted in. Think that would have changed when entry level licensing was brought in, but it's definitely worth double checking.

Suspect that would probably have been done one way or another within 20 minutes by Fairweatherfan if I had been the one to post that. He seemed to have access recently when I questioned the finer details of who would need to sign off on playoff rule changes.

Covered seating is an issue that could rear its head soon in an HL context because Lochee United don't have any and seem to be on course to be licensed in time for the playoffs at the end of the season if East Craigie and Carnoustie Panmure don't pip them at the post for the Midlands League title.

[Ginaro]

Unless something has changed from the HL's 2019 constitution, the only requirement is to be a SFA full member (i.e. an entry level licence), nothing about seats is mentioned. Not even in the 2010 rules either.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Unless something has changed from the HL's 2019 constitution, the only requirement is to be a SFA full member (i.e. an entry level licence), nothing about seats is mentioned. Not even in the 2010 rules either.

The seating and floodlights rule in the HL were more to do with having their members pursue SFA membership in the pre-licencing era. Once licencing started the SFA scaled things back to keep more of their historical members who hadn't maintained those standards expected of new members.

Now that licencing includes floodlights with a minimum flux chances are their rulebook is back to just being a full member of the SFA. Although they haven't bothered to place their constitution online the last couple of years.

[The Mantis]

6 hours ago, parsforlife said:

Surprised you would get awarded 700 for the terrace,  looks maybe 20 yards long?

Based on it being 20m,  It should only have 141,  even if it got given the highest factor.  

Either there's updated guidance or you've argued for it to be considered differently but I struggle to see how.

Edit-  terrible maths earlier 

Maybe it was terrible maths by the council guys…

Not been involved for over 3 years now, but they put 2 rows of seats at the front of the terracing as they were just lying spare, so the capacity should be even less now.

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

chances are their rulebook is back to just being a full member of the SFA. Although they haven't bothered to place their constitution online the last couple of years.

That's exactly what the 2019 rules say, so unless something has changed since then Lochee etc will be fine.

[Burnieman]

Seating is not required for an entry level licence, therefore Bonnyrigg will not have an issue.

That said, the chat is that seating will become a requirement of the licence within a few years.

[VillanoXIV]

Seeing as I’ve read seven pages of boundary hysteria, I’m changing my picks. The Lowland in five years will consist of:

East Kilbride

Spartans

Rangers B

Celtic B

Brechin City

Aberdeen B

Elgin City

Brora Rangers

Fort William

Orkney

Wick Academy

Sleat and Strath FC

New Pitsligo

Caley Braves

Darvel

Brechin Victoria

[bravehearts dad]

9 hours ago, VillanoXIV said:

Seeing as I’ve read seven pages of boundary hysteria, I’m changing my picks. The Lowland in five years will consist of:

East Kilbride

Spartans

Rangers B

Celtic B

Brechin City

Aberdeen B

Elgin City

Brora Rangers

Fort William

Orkney

Wick Academy

Sleat and Strath FC

New Pitsligo

Caley Braves

Darvel

Brechin Victoria

So that means 10 current clubs in the LL will make up SPFL 2 and the rest at level 6 or below!!!

C’mon The Rose

[AsimButtHitsASix]

15 minutes ago, bravehearts dad said:

So that means 10 current clubs in the LL will make up SPFL 2 and the rest at level 6 or below!!!

C’mon The Rose

The Rose are in the North Caley 2nd division at this point. 

[Marten]

On 29/11/2021 at 23:55, VillanoXIV said:

Seeing as I’ve read seven pages of boundary hysteria, I’m changing my picks. The Lowland in five years will consist of:

East Kilbride

Spartans

Rangers B

Celtic B

Brechin City

Aberdeen B

Elgin City

Brora Rangers

Fort William

Orkney

Wick Academy

Sleat and Strath FC

New Pitsligo

Caley Braves

Darvel

Brechin Victoria

Sleat and Strath FC would be the away day everyone is looking forward to. I've actually been there, not a special ground, but wonderful surroundings!

[Glenconner]

On 27/10/2021 at 13:49, oneteaminglasgow said:

Are there any clubs currently below the East/West Premier divisions who would look to have a realistic possibility of making it to the SPFL at any point soon? Not next 5 years, presumably, but are there maybe some with the potential?

And, while the bottom half of the current league two are obviously in the most imminent danger, realistically every part time club in the SPFL could face the drop at some point.

 

I'd be looking at Petershill and Drumchapel Utd in the years to come to be heading for the LL.

[Sergeant Wilson]

11 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

I'd be looking at Petershill and Drumchapel Utd in the years to come to be heading for the LL.

Based on what?

[Glenconner]

On 31/03/2022 at 15:27, Sergeant Wilson said:

Based on what?

Starting with Drumchapel Utd, in the first full season post Covid vaccinations the Drum in a dogfight with Petershill will take it to the last game to decide who goes up. 

So fair play to them on the football side of things.

Stage 2 would be hopefully, to get things moving regarding off the park.

I'd like to think the Donald Dewar sports centre could be brought up to licence mark.

Again I'm hopeful the Drum could attract a crowd with a winning team certainly on par with Yoker if not Clydebank.

I'm sure more than a few who go to Holm Park have a Drumchapel connection.

Now for Petershill, the Peasy i believe applied for a licence and failed because you can see into the ground from the path behind one of the goals.

Okay for Scotland Ladies international team but not okay for a Scottish Cup tie!!!

One other problem for Peasy i see is the support.

I think and i hope I'm totally wrong here but there's a possibility the Pyramid might have came too late for Petershill, ie the old support have died off.

But, there's always a but, leaving the city centre New Petershill Park is the closest non league ground.

There's good rail and road transport links and plenty of parking space.

Get the Peasy a licence and into the Scottish Cup and a bit of luck and publicity who knows the future could be very bright.

Best of luck to both clubs going forward.