Which Clubs in the Lowland League in Five Seasons' Time?

[LongTimeLurker]

7 minutes ago, Dev said:

I wonder if it would be possible kick out a club after one season. Also, if a former SPFL club from north of the current HL/LL boundary gets relegated to Tier 6 which league would it go down to? Surely the EoS wouldn't accept an Angus club?

As things stand at the moment one of the LL feeders is on the hook to accept any club that is relegated from the LL and who goes where gets agreed between the leagues involved well ahead of time. There's no scope for them to go to an HL feeder in terms of the rules that are in place.

Edited November 6, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[FairWeatherFan]

25 minutes ago, Dev said:

I wonder if it would be possible kick out a club after one season. Also, if a former SPFL club from north of the current HL/LL boundary gets relegated to Tier 6 which league would it go down to? Surely the EoS wouldn't accept an Angus club?

The agreements in place are betwen the LL-EoSFL-WoSFL-SoSFL and a different agreement between the HL-North Region-Midlands-NCL.

The only thing that has apparently happened is the scrapping of the boundary for Club 42 from the SPFL.

[LongTimeLurker]

^^^probably actually HL-SJFA-NCL on the latter bit judging from the press releases at the time. Worth a double check on who gets to agree to rule changes.

Edited November 6, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

^^^probably actually HL-SJFA-NCL on the latter bit judging from the press releases at the time. Worth a double check on who gets to agree to rule changes.

Nope

[LongTimeLurker]

That's where clubs get relegated to or promoted from not who agrees to rule changes.

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

That's where clubs get relegated to or promoted from not who agrees to rule changes.

[LongTimeLurker]

Guess the SJFA's way of working has changed since Tom Johnston retired as he always insisted it all had to go through him where the pyramid was concerned.

[Dev]

Why on earth would any SPFL 2 club from Angus choose to travel to play in the the tougher to get out of LL than the HL i.e. the nearest Tier 5 League? The LL is only going to get stronger as clubs come down from SPFL 2.

I just don't buy the "that's where we get our players from" angle. I didn't work for Brechin and players from the central belt travel far and wide into HL territory already, in any case. Brechin seem to be reverting to a more community interested club and they will find their own level.

The arm twisting by the SFA (at least as reported on P&B) is plainly poorly thought out. In this day and age do the SFA (?)Board - who are all jointly responsible - really hope to keep the lid on "personal" angles behind the scenes whic, it seems, may have provoked their knee-jerk actions? Would it be so unexpected if they all end up greatly embarrassed?

If this back-fires there will need to be a meaningful dealing with the SFA Board problem at SFA level.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

30 minutes ago, Dev said:

Why on earth would any SPFL 2 club from Angus choose to travel to play in the the tougher to get out of LL than the HL...

In Brechin's case because they train in Grangemouth (assume that's still the case?) and have tended to be a Central Belt team in recent times in player recruitment terms. Think that's the norm for Angus SPFL clubs with the possible exception of Montrose when they were finishing close to bottom.

The concern rightly or wrongly appears to be about what happens if they move to a more local based squad in an HL context. This has been explained in many newspaper articles and interviews. Having Craig Levein and Andy Kirk on board does not point to a low budget community approach but more of the same in an effort to bounce back ASAP.

Not sure the HL is actually easier to get out of at this point although it probably will be 5 to 10 years down the road. There are still several well-funded clubs near the top even with Cove out of the picture now.

Edited November 6, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[changeisneeded]

On 06/11/2021 at 13:33, LongTimeLurker said:

In Brechin's case because they train in Grangemouth (assume that's still the case?) and have tended to be a Central Belt team in recent times in player recruitment terms. Think that's the norm for Angus SPFL clubs with the possible exception of Montrose when they were finishing close to bottom.

The concern rightly or wrongly appears to be about what happens if they move to a more local based squad in an HL context. This has been explained in many newspaper articles and interviews. Having Craig Levein and Andy Kirk on board does not point to a low budget community approach but more of the same in an effort to bounce back ASAP.

Not sure the HL is actually easier to get out of at this point although it probably will be 5 to 10 years down the road. There are still several well-funded clubs near the top even with Cove out of the picture now.

Never understood the recruitment of levein, unless the club is flush with money.

There isn't alot for him to advise on in a full time capacity in this league if honest? 

Perhaps he's here to attract players who love playing in a 4-6-0 formation 

[Ivo den Bieman]

Not sure where this fantasy that Brechin City want to go to the Lowland League is coming from. In pure footballing terms the Highland League will be a much easier route to qualify for the promotion play-offs as it is a league weakening by the year. The Lowland League on the other hand is strengthening every season.

Brechin may not go up this season- think Fraserburgh and Rothes are slightly better overall having seen all of the top 6-8 in the HL this season. Would expect them to go quite close this season and have a strong run at the title next campaign. And, if for some unforeseen reason the Broch and the Cattachs blow up / lose form, they're best placed to take advantage.

Can;t see the incentive now for Brechin joining the Lowland League. That ship has sailed.

[Ivo den Bieman]

Once the Lowland League lose the B teams, open up relegation and gradually sluice out some of the diddy / astroturfed teams at the bottom end to replace them with the Auchinlecks and Polloks from the West, together with ever-improving sides from the EoS, it really will be a very tough league to get out of- it's hard enough at present. In time the Lochees, Carnousties & Tayports will have the same effect in the HL.

[LongTimeLurker]

^^^for the benefit of anyone who hasn't been following what's happening on this. Here's the background to what Brechin City were trying to do with SFA help as recently as six months ago:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/lowland-league-clubs-unanimously-reject-24210716

[Ivo den Bieman]

What does an article from the Daily Record written in May prove? Six months was a long time ago- Brechin then were newly relegated from the league and in a different context to the one we're in now- with new ownership, expereince of the HL and almost a completely different playing staff.

That's the thing about debates, they evolve. You don't need to obsess over committee minutes and forum discussions to grasp that.

Moving to the Lowland League would diminish Brechin's chance of returning to the national divisions rather than enhance it. And given that their attempt to join was shot down unanimously I'll be very surprised if they make another.

[LongTimeLurker]

^^^again only for the benefit of those who have not been following. Six months after the SFA and Brechin City didn't get their way this has been reported to have happened:

 

[bluearmyfaction]

Could a Lowland League club choose to switch to the Highland League?  Could be a tactical move if they think they're more likely to finish top there.

[LongTimeLurker]

29 minutes ago, bluearmyfaction said:

Could a Lowland League club choose to switch to the Highland League?  Could be a tactical move if they think they're more likely to finish top there.

Seems unlikely that could happen through a change to the Club 42 playoff rule but we don't know all of the ramifications yet.

[Ivo den Bieman]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

^^^again only for the benefit of those who have not been following. Six months after the SFA and Brechin City didn't get their way this has been reported to have happened:

 

 

Yup. A 6 month old article from a Glasgow tabloid and a guy on twitter sure are the first ports of call when you want to find out the current thinking at Brechin City.

Brechin's bizarre attempt to shoehorn themselves into the LL was seen widely by the support as a further stain on the club's reputation after a shambolic few years on the park. Moreover, most fans seem to be quite surprised by enjoying the HFL and watching a team that actually wins more than three times a season.

Their concern is to return to the SPFL as soon as possible. Self-evidently, that task will be made much more difficult by joining a much stronger league filling up with the cream of the former junior game and Old Firm B teams.

Now they are established in the HFL Brechin will be going nowhere near the LL., whatever the leaked minutes or excited whispers in the snug of a Lanarkshire Weatherspoon's might have you believe.

[Dev]

I wonder if all of the current SFA Board agree with the recent move to delete the HL?LL boundary. If they were against this then they have kept their heads below the parapet for now. Change at the top must surely come. 

You don't have to have a Scot as Chief Exec just because it's Scotland. Why not get someone from outside the bubble which is Scottish Football who is NOT stained by past associations and by past failures e.g. failing to get the pyramid sorted and unnecessarily interfering with the LL and failing to ratify or disagree with LL rule changes in good time for the current season.

Then there's also failure, it seems, to have a policy about whether or not future international players can play for so called "B" teams in the Pyramid. Fortunately the younger players with promise are starting to appear once more and reach the National Squad.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Dev
error

[LongTimeLurker]

The HL-LL boundary was implemented in the McRae-Regan era in SFA terms when Tom Johnston and the SJFA were still banging on about the Holy Grail and were expected to keep doing their own thing (which might still be happening but for Kelty Hearts). At that point, Cove Rangers (Alan McRae's club) and the LL clubs (mainly Spartans) were calling the shots to a large extent on the pyramid because most of Scottish football weren't paying all that much attention.

In the Petrie-Maxwell era the LL no longer have the same level of influence and the rest of Scottish football is paying more attention now. The SJFA decided they wanted in after the mass migration to the EoS in the east and the SFA board tried to facilitate it only to be thwarted by the EoS having a veto over changes to playoff rules into the LL. Petrie and Maxwell have made it clear by their actions pretty much all the way through that they don't regard the HL-LL boundary as being carved in stone, so it's no surprise that it would get removed from the equation at some point.