NotThePars Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Big fan of the thread being locked so every comment suggesting his voting record meant he wasn’t a great guy could be purged only for the thread to be unlocked and everyone immediately logging on to say the same thing Great website 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 4 hours ago, Bairnardo said: Yeah, I am kinda the same. Total condemnation of someone using a knife and taking the life of another, but when analysing the whole thing, and the reaction to it, we see people insisting on the sacredness of being an elected offical. Insisting that they are above and beyond the real life consequences of what they do day to day. Your average Conservative politician has actively cast votes, for ideological reasons, that keep people miserable, cold, hungry. Prevent people getting help and support they need, and that would help them stand on their own two feet. These decisions lead to misery and death on an almost industrial scale, and its all because of their interprtation of who deserves to live like that. I feel sad that someone has had their life ended in this way, and for his family. I also absolutely do not want to see the heart of our democracy attacked in this way either. The ballot box is the first and only way to go about this, but the gushing and political point scoring thats going to happen in the coming days just doesnt sit right with me at all. If you had told me a bit about this guy a week ago, id have said I hate him with every fibre of my being. Its not really releavnt tbh, its just that like you im having a hard time squaring up how I feel about it. Im not happy to hear about someone getting hacked up in public by a terrorist though, thats for certain. I think this is a good post and I’m not onboard with the sycophantic tributes but I can’t see this as anything other than a barbaric and senseless loss of life. His political views should not be a death sentence and it is possible to be wrong politically and be a decent human being to the people close to you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 I don't wish harm or murder on anybody but the tributes on the news made me sick, especially the ones that said he just wanted to help people. Yes if you are a rich white male he will help you. If you are poor, an ethnic minority or a woman you were shite on his shoe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH33 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I drove home.from work tonight and noticed 'hang sturgeon' has been graffitied onto a road sign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Ferguson's Hat Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Ross sure gets about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I think this is a good post and I’m not onboard with the sycophantic tributes but I can’t see this as anything other than a barbaric and senseless loss of life. His political views should not be a death sentence and it is possible to be wrong politically and be a decent human being to the people close to you. Yeah, im not seeking to justify his killing. There is no justification for that, and it seems like it may turn out that the underlying reasons for gim being targeted are nothing really to do with Tory policy, at least not domestic policy. However, as this is a discussion board its likely that we wont all stall on how horrible a thing it was that happened and further examine the similarities between this and Jo Cox, and the wider epidemic of MPs security threats. This is what leads me to question that if you cause harm to millions based on your own ideologies, how do I feel personally when harm visits you. I was really just seeking to say that it caused a fair bit of confusion in my own mind, and it also led me to question at what point you can be seperated from the known consequences of your decisions ie at what point should you be protected at all costs from the backlash of those you hurt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Already sick to the back teeth of being told that Islamist inspired terror is the fault of people saying "f**k" on twitter, Angela Rayner and indyref. They say he wasn't known to the security services but had been referred to Prevent which seems a more germane avenue of enquiry rather than condemning the palpable anger of large swathes of the electorate at the backwards tinpot bendy banana clusterfuck we have instead of a functioning democracy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Bairnardo said: Yeah, im not seeking to justify his killing. There is no justification for that, and it seems like it may turn out that the underlying reasons for gim being targeted are nothing really to do with Tory policy, at least not domestic policy. However, as this is a discussion board its likely that we wont all stall on how horrible a thing it was that happened and further examine the similarities between this and Jo Cox, and the wider epidemic of MPs security threats. This is what leads me to question that if you cause harm to millions based on your own ideologies, how do I feel personally when harm visits you. I was really just seeking to say that it caused a fair bit of confusion in my own mind, and it also led me to question at what point you can be seperated from the known consequences of your decisions ie at what point should you be protected at all costs from the backlash of those you hurt. Yeah on a human level you’re right but I suppose it’s a bit of a fundamental of democracy that once you’ve been elected you’re there to make tough choices on behalf of the people that voted for you. Obviously many people would say they didn’t vote for poverty, war etc but our democracy is imperfect for those reasons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Terrible for his family and sympathies with them. But can anyone explain how a committed Xtian can support the death penalty? Same with animal rights and fox hunting.I don't think the bible says anything about animal rights, though it has been a long time since Sunday school. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Yeah on a human level you’re right but I suppose it’s a bit of a fundamental of democracy that once you’ve been elected you’re there to make tough choices on behalf of the people that voted for you. Obviously many people would say they didn’t vote for poverty, war etc but our democracy is imperfect for those reasons. Aye. This is precisely where the muddy waters are for me. The guys values make me sick, and are the worst of the worst for me, but for democracy to work there probably needs to be a line that cannot be crossed, which in turn means MPs afforded disproportionately high levels of protection. We quite simply Again though, all of that is a wee bit seperate from the very obvious point that all people ought to be safe from being murdered in the street. I know I keep adding that but I think its important to be clear there so we dont derail. I do wonder how this would play had it happened to someone of a certain political mindset who isnt an elected MP. Say a Farage type. I think it wiuld be a colossal shitfest, many times worse than this will be in the coming days and weeks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, DiegoDiego said: 18 hours ago, Tony Ferrino said: Terrible for his family and sympathies with them. But can anyone explain how a committed Xtian can support the death penalty? Same with animal rights and fox hunting. I don't think the bible says anything about animal rights, though it has been a long time since Sunday school. Are we not supposed to be stewards of God's creation, which could be implied to treat animals reasonably (before slaughtering them and eating them, of course)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: Are we not supposed to be stewards of God's creation, which could be implied to treat animals reasonably (before slaughtering them and eating them, of course)? I think Moses frowned upon animal sacrifices, which we're now doing to pigs in honour of the great God Brexit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I think Moses frowned upon animal sacrifices, which we're now doing to pigs in honour of the great God Brexit. The Old Testament is littered with examples of animal sacrifices, notwithstanding Moses' disapproval. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 3 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said: Already sick to the back teeth of being told that Islamist inspired terror is the fault of people saying "f**k" on twitter, Angela Rayner and indyref. They say he wasn't known to the security services but had been referred to Prevent which seems a more germane avenue of enquiry rather than condemning the palpable anger of large swathes of the electorate at the backwards tinpot bendy banana clusterfuck we have instead of a functioning democracy. Not sure that "Prevent" is functioning as well as might have been hoped. Quote What is Prevent? Prevent aims to stop people becoming terrorists or being drawn towards terrorism. Prevent strategy has three specific strategic objectives: Identify: working with statutory partners to spot those at risk of radicalisation and ensure effective measures are in place Safeguard: assisting and collaborating across police and with statutory partners to divert those on a pathway of radicalisation Disrupt: using our unique police powers to divert and disrupt those seeking to radicalise the vulnerable and cause harm Prevent operates in the NON-CRIMINAL space. This means that individuals are supported to move away from terrorism, rather than being criminalised. It seeks to stop individuals from going to the extreme of committing or encouraging violent activity. This is a multi-agency process called ‘Channel’. Prevent is not about spying on people, stigmatising or criminalising people and/or communities. in Lincolnshire. We aim to empower all communities to stand up to the small minority who support terrorism or extremism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Cant get on board with any outrage about Labour not standing a candidate tbh. The circumstances in which this by election have came would render it pretty fucking despicable to try and profit from it in any way. It would be the worst optics imaginable. To use a footballing analogy this is as clear a "give the ball back" case as you could ever imagine. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 53 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Cant get on board with any outrage about Labour not standing a candidate tbh. The circumstances in which this by election have came would render it pretty fucking despicable to try and profit from it in any way. It would be the worst optics imaginable. To use a footballing analogy this is as clear a "give the ball back" case as you could ever imagine. Labour, and the left, can't win here so the best thing they can do is respectful silence and staying out of it. It's also what happened when Jo Cox died so would be bizarre as f**k if Labour decided to stand someone. It'll be interesting to see which cranks decide to run though. Can't imagine it being as nasty as Batley and Spen but folk will do their best to make it so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 No matter the circumstances, in the event of an assassination the sitting politician's party ought to be given a free run. I know ethics in politics have been gradually whittled away, but it would be bizarre to essentially legitimise murder as a means of expressing displeasure with politicians. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I don't think the bible says anything about animal rights, though it has been a long time since Sunday school. That Noah guy was only willing to try to save 2 of each species on his wooden boat thing. That's not very Christian spirited given there were no doubt millions of each [emoji102] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said: That Noah guy was only willing to try to save 2 of each species on his wooden boat thing. That's not very Christian spirited given there were no doubt millions of each And he went away without the unicorns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said: And he went away without the unicorns. And the dinosaurs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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