David Amess MP murdered

[Left Back]

11 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Please continue to do so - these absolute arseholes have to be shown up for the cúnts they are.

Amess' murder, sad though it is, was made more likely by so many Tory policies, from the slashing of the welfare state budget to the evisceration of the NHS. These bástards should have their actions held up to them and forced to own their responsibility for the consequences. I won't hold my breath.

You're reaching here if it is a terrorist act as is currently being reported.  I don't think you'll find many terrorists that are angry about the welfare state or NHS.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

2 minutes ago, Left Back said:

You're reaching here if it is a terrorist act as is currently being reported.  I don't think you'll find many terrorists that are angry about the welfare state or NHS.

Not really. The dismantling of both leads to poorer mental health and social care, increases poverty and isolation and leads to the general lack of hope that leads people toward terrorism. No-one's stupid enough to say if the Tories hadn't ripped out so many avenues for help for young men then this would never have happened but the odds would certainly have lengthened 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 minute ago, Left Back said:

You're reaching here if it is a terrorist act as is currently being reported.  I don't think you'll find many terrorists that are angry about the welfare state or NHS.

I think you'll find plenty of youngsters radicalised simply by holding up the lack of financial support and healthcare to them and being asked to "look at what this country thinks of you". I'e met plenty, and this is a recurring theme, which I've discussed with a couple of (despairing) Prison Imams.  No-one is born a terrorist.

Far from reaching, I'm exploringthe motivation, and suggesting possible factors, that may have led an individual to act in this way. Maybe too complex for you - certainly the Government line is keeping it simple. Just as the GBP like it.

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

That no-one, whatever their politics, should go to work and not return is surely a given. The perpetrator of this act should feel the full force of the CJ system. Obviously, a few extra years should be added on for having the temerity to be born in Somalia, and having been referred to PREVENT*.

However, this man (Amess) was complicit (in no way a rebel, he voted as he was told) in a Government whose policies have led, demonstrably so, to millions of people's lives being poorer, hungrier and shorter. That the absolute best the media can come up with from a thirty-plus year career is a (so far unsuccessful) campaign to have Southend gain City status, says more than any of the rentamouth whores who have been all over the news all weekend. The word "status" is particularly apposite to his type of party drone.

As someone posted above, on Friday morning he would not have given you or I the steam off his piss. Dying, in whatever manner, does not confer canonisation.

The saddest thing of all is that the most tangible consequence of this horrible event will not be a softening of political debate or an increase in MPs' safety, but that witch Patel getting carte blanche  to introduce her "raft of measures" which she has, in no way, prepared earlier. All while we continually argue whether wearing a fucking mask is an infringement of our rights.

TL:DR; Tragic event, massive opportunity for speeding up Normal Island's descent into Totalitarianism.

*As were many, many students, on the basis of their mixing socially with people of the same skin-tone. Yes, really. Pesky immigrants, mixing with people whose circumstances were similar. Should have shipped them into the middle of the Atlantic, or sunk their dinghies in the Channel, eh, Priti?

Bet Southend gets made a city now though. It's what he would have wanted. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

5 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Not really. The dismantling of both leads to poorer mental health and social care, increases poverty and isolation and leads to the general lack of hope that leads people toward terrorism. No-one's stupid enough to say if the Tories hadn't ripped out so many avenues for help for young men then this would never have happened but the odds would certainly have lengthened 

Absolutely. Glad someone gets it.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Just now, coprolite said:

Bet Southend gets made a city now though. It's what he would have wanted. 

He'd have been happier for Southend* (working-class shithole) to be levelled, and Leigh-on-Sea (more our type of people) to be expanded and granted the status.

*12% child poverty, and Essex's most dangerous town. The highest violent crime rate in Essex. Let that sink in.

[welshbairn]

15 minutes ago, Left Back said:

You're reaching here if it is a terrorist act as is currently being reported.  I don't think you'll find many terrorists that are angry about the welfare state or NHS.

Agreed, it was probably a random attack on a public figure by someone radicalised by the likes of ISIS. Although Amess was Secretary of Conservative Friends of Israel, but the murderer probably didn't know that.

[Left Back]

24 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

I think you'll find plenty of youngsters radicalised simply by holding up the lack of financial support and healthcare to them and being asked to "look at what this country thinks of you". I'e met plenty, and this is a recurring theme, which I've discussed with a couple of (despairing) Prison Imams.  No-one is born a terrorist.

Far from reaching, I'm exploringthe motivation, and suggesting possible factors, that may have led an individual to act in this way. Maybe too complex for you - certainly the Government line is keeping it simple. Just as the GBP like it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3944722/

[WhiteRoseKillie]

11 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Agreed, it was probably a random attack on a public figure by someone radicalised by the likes of ISIS. Although Amess was Secretary of Conservative Friends of Israel, but the murderer probably didn't know that.

The murderer possibly only knew that this was his last shot at getting whatever help he needed from the authorities. Had he been less in control of his actions, he could have killed a social worker, GP, DWP clerk, or other representative of the welfare machine.

And, sadly, we would now be back to discussing whether Johnson and Carrie Antoinette have paid for their own new kitchen or whether some businessman has invested the cost of a few cabinets to get a Knighthood in the NY Honours.

[NotThePars]

It didn’t take long for the blame to settle on anyone that’s also called the Tories out for what they are.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 minute ago, Left Back said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3944722/

f**k me, that's desperate. And 7 years old.

"Hi. I'm writing a paper on Fundamentalist Islam and terrorism in the UK. Would you, a UK-based Muslim, like to participate? You've got a couple of years before the country officially becomes a hostile environment for you, so no problem, eh?"

"Aye, no bother. Just let me park this book - sorry if the weird squiggles look threatening. I mean, there's no way i'd suspect the UK Government was trying to get data on me, is there?"

[Left Back]

7 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

f**k me, that's desperate. And 7 years old.

"Hi. I'm writing a paper on Fundamentalist Islam and terrorism in the UK. Would you, a UK-based Muslim, like to participate? You've got a couple of years before the country officially becomes a hostile environment for you, so no problem, eh?"

"Aye, no bother. Just let me park this book - sorry if the weird squiggles look threatening. I mean, there's no way i'd suspect the UK Government was trying to get data on me, is there?"

You'll be able to provide evidence of your claim then or is your strategy that if you shout loud enough people will think you're correct?  Did you actually read the paper to see how they'd arrived at their conclusions?

I realise that in your head everything is a vehicle to criticise the Tories but your hate seeps through too much and nullifies any valid points you might occasionally make.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

12 minutes ago, Left Back said:

You'll be able to provide evidence of your claim then or is your strategy that if you shout loud enough people will think you're correct?  Did you actually read the paper to see how they'd arrived at their conclusions?

I realise that in your head everything is a vehicle to criticise the Tories but your hate seeps through too much and nullifies any valid points you might occasionally make.

What claim is that, then? If you mean my statement that many youngsters have been radicalised by using perceived racism against them as a tool, then I'm afraid all I can offer is a quarter of a century of working in the High Security Estate, dealing with extremists of all stripes, the attempted rehabilitation of those already in jail, and community work to help identify those vulnerable to radicalisation in the community.

So, yeah, stack that against a five-minute chat with Dr. Google and I must bow down to your superior intellect.

Fud.

[Left Back]

26 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

What claim is that, then? If you mean my statement that many youngsters have been radicalised by using perceived racism against them as a tool, then I'm afraid all I can offer is a quarter of a century of working in the High Security Estate, dealing with extremists of all stripes, the attempted rehabilitation of those already in jail, and community work to help identify those vulnerable to radicalisation in the community.

So, yeah, stack that against a five-minute chat with Dr. Google and I must bow down to your superior intellect.

Fud.

No.  Your claim that people are radicalised because of Tory policies on the NHS and healthcare support.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

3 minutes ago, Left Back said:

No.  Your claim that people are radicalised because of Tory policies on the NHS and healthcare support.

Except I didn't claim that, did I? I simply held up the perception of this country's attitude towards immigrants/minorities being used as a tool by those radicalising youngsters. Before the current scum, the go-to was "our" support of the War on Terror. Not a Tory policy, unless you describe Bliar as a Tory?

That Tory policies over the last decade have made this tool of perceived injustice easier to use rather than harder is purely down to the Conservative Party, with a bit of servile assistance from the yellow tories and complicity through inaction on behalf of the Party who ar nominally in Opposition.

[Left Back]

2 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Please continue to do so - these absolute arseholes have to be shown up for the cúnts they are.

Amess' murder, sad though it is, was made more likely by so many Tory policies, from the slashing of the welfare state budget to the evisceration of the NHS. 

 

7 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Except I didn't claim that, did I?

Really? 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

12 minutes ago, Left Back said:

 

Really? 

Yes, really. Even your wee cherry-pick there does not draw that conclusion.

The likelihood of a reaction against Tory policy has increased whether the assailant was an immigrant, a home-grown fundamentalist, a homeless veteran, a single mother pushed into prostitution in order to feed her child, or any member of the population whose life has been made more and more unbearable by this horrible set of cúnts who are destroying what is left of our country's society in order to fill their fucking pockets. People are becoming desperate, and desperate people react in desperate ways.

You really don't have to be radicalised to see this Government as a set of horrible cúnts. A country where children starve and the poor are dying younger than the rich by twenty fucking years because we "need" a weapon system we can never use and a train that goes somewhere most of us don't want to go a wee bit quicker is not a civilised country.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

petition to change the name of Southend to Amess.

Seems like a fitting tribute

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Bet Southend gets made a city now though. It's what he would have wanted. 

You called it.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

petition to change the name of Southend to Amess.
Seems like a fitting tribute

He only ended up in Southend because he was going to lose Basildon in 1997.