David Amess MP murdered

[Aim Here]

1 minute ago, Bishop Briggs said:

I'd forgotten about Bradford. All of the MPs who were murdered after Spencer Percival (1812) before Jo Cox (2016) were killed by Irish Republicans. Are you saying that their motives were non-ideological?

What I said was that plenty of politicians get attacked for non-ideological reasons. There has been at least one such murderous attack on an MP well within living memory (though merely attempted murder) and I listed a bunch of instances of politicians who weren't members of Parliament being murdered.

"Politicians do get physically attacked for non-political reasons' is a very different statement from 'Every murdered member of Parliament was killed by an actor with a non-ideological motive'. The former is true and the latter is false.

[Aladdin]

African appearance you say?

[Billy Jean King]

Not even 19% of the population of South Africa - the whitest country in the continent - is white.

It was a google figure. It may be more accurate to say 19% of Aricans are not black. I'm not entering into that debate but I assume they are classing the millions in SA along with the N African nations. There is no denying it was a piss poor description for the BBC to use no matter the demographic split.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

9 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Jo Cox's memorial at the House of Commons did not require crowd funding.

Are you saying that similar memorials for MPs who were murdered by the IRA should not be funded by Parliament?

It's not my decision. Westminster clearly believes that they don't require similar memorials.

Are you saying that Jo Cox didn't deserve a statue, or that it should be removed unless others are given one ?

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, Tommy Carcetti said:

It's not my decision. Westminster clearly believes that they don't require similar memorials.

Are you saying that Jo Cox didn't deserve a statue, or that it should be removed unless others are given one ?

 

No expense was spent...

[Bishop Briggs]

4 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

What I said was that plenty of politicians get attacked for non-ideological reasons. There has been at least one such murderous attack on an MP well within living memory (though merely attempted murder) and I listed a bunch of instances of politicians who weren't members of Parliament being murdered.

"Politicians do get physically attacked for non-political reasons' is a very different statement from 'Every murdered member of Parliament was killed by an actor with a non-ideological motive'. The former is true and the latter is false.

An elected Parliamentarian is not any politician. Elected Parliaments are the pinnacles of representative democracy.

How many MSPs, MEPs or Assembly Members have been murdered or sustained serious injuries as a result of non-ideological attacks? You have given only one example.

The main perpetrators of violence against elected politicians, especially Parliamentarians, have been Irish Republicans. Their motives were very ideological.

 

[Bishop Briggs]

13 minutes ago, Tommy Carcetti said:

It's not my decision. Westminster clearly believes that they don't require similar memorials.

Are you saying that Jo Cox didn't deserve a statue, or that it should be removed unless others are given one ?

Not at all. I never said anything like that.

Unlike you, I'm saying that all MPs who were murdered by terrorists should be treated equally.

It's you who is the hypocrite with double standards.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Bishop Briggs

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

An elected Parliamentarian is not any politician. Elected Parliaments are the pinnacles of representative democracy.

How many MSPs, MEPs or Assembly Members have been murdered or sustained serious injuries as a result of non-ideological attacks? You have given only one example.

The main perpetrators of violence against elected politicians, especially Parliamentarians, have been Irish Republicans. Their motives were very ideological.

 

In their eyes they were at war, however I'm not sure what point it is that you're trying to make ?

[Jacksgranda]

15 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

In their eyes they were at war, however I'm not sure what point it is that you're trying to make ?

Except when any of them got killed by the security forces, then they should have been arrested.

[Bishop Briggs]

19 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

In their eyes they were at war, however I'm not sure what point it is that you're trying to make ?

And that justifies murdering elected MPs?

Edit - my point is that no motive (especially political, ideological or religious) justifies the murder of anyone.

Do you have a problem with that?

Edited October 15, 2021 by Bishop Briggs

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said:

Except when any of them got killed by the security forces, then they should have been arrested.

Yes, no doubt that one side was as bad as the other.

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Bishop Briggs said:

And that justifies murdering elected MPs?

My point is that no political or religious motive justifies the murder of anyone.

Do you have a problem with that?

Yes. of course I do.

If you're at war with someone then they're fair game, surely that's the whole point ??

[Bishop Briggs]

5 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Yes. of course I do.

If you're at war with someone then they're fair game, surely that's the whole point ??

Your idiotic argument could be used by any mad terrorist to justify mass murder.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Bishop Briggs

[BFTD]

This is going well.

[Aim Here]

31 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

An elected Parliamentarian is not any politician. Elected Parliaments are the pinnacles of representative democracy.

I still don't see the link between that and being the victim of assassinations. Most of my examples of apolitical assassination attempts were Presidents or Prime Ministers, who are surely much more of a pinnacle still.

31 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

How many MSPs, MEPs or Assembly Members have been murdered or sustained serious injuries as a result of non-ideological attacks? You have given only one example.

Come off it. There have been no MSPs, MEPs or assembly members murdered for political reasons either. The instance of politicians being killed for any reason at all is very low.

31 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

The main perpetrators of violence against elected politicians, especially Parliamentarians, have been Irish Republicans. Their motives were very ideological.

If we boil this argument down, your train of thought is that this apparent Somalian national, in 2021, well over 20 years after Irish Republicans stopped shooting at agents of the British state, is more likely to have a political motive because he's probably an Irish Republican because he attacked an MP? I'll leave working out the flaw in the logic as an exercise for the reader.

If that's too much for you, let's try another route: since the war is, to all intents and purposes, over, we can easily exclude Irish Republicans from the suspects list, so howabout we do the Bayesian statistical thing and only look at the main perpetrators of violence against MPs specifically (though why we arbitrarily only look at MPs, I still don't understand - this laughable 'pinnacle of democracy' nonsense aside) who aren't Irish Republicans? And we come up with 1 non-political, 1 fascist and 1 Islamist in the last 20 years or so. 33% chance? Seems reasonable.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Aim Here

[Guest]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

Your idiotic argument could be used by any mad terrorist to justify mass murder.

f**k off!

Temper, temper,

So sending an unmanned drone to take out a civilian housing block is fine as that's the "good guys" but when someone else uses the only means they have necessary to take revenge, then that's suddenly "just not cricket" ???

Neither are right but we have to be grown up about this and try and understand what motivates people rather than just going berzerk about it.....

[welshbairn]

9 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

And that justifies murdering elected MPs?

Edit - my point is that no motive (especially political, ideological or religious) justifies the murder of anyone.

Do you have a problem with that?

I'm guessing you're thinking in particular of the murder of Qasem Soleimani whilst on a diplomatic mission?

Edited October 15, 2021 by welshbairn

[Bishop Briggs]

Just now, WATTOO said:

Temper, temper,

So sending an unmanned drone to take out a civilian housing block is fine as that's the "good guys" but when someone else uses the only means they have necessary to take revenge, then that's suddenly "just not cricket" ???

Neither are right but we have to be grown up about this and try and understand what motivates people rather than just going berzerk about it.....

That's classic whataboutery. The issue here is the murder of MPs in the Commons, at home or in their constituencies.

So do you support or condemn those murders. Your comments suggest the former rather than the latter.

[Guest]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

That's classic whataboutery. The issue here is the murder of MPs in the Commons, at home or in their constituencies.

So do you support or condemn those murders. Your comments suggest the former rather than the latter.

It's not my place to support or condemn anything, I'm merely saying from the perpetrators perspective they're doing what they think is right, irrespective of how unsavoury that may be.

I should add that I'm talking from a perspective of general ideology and war as opposed to the incident today with a nutter with a machete attacking a defenceless pensioner, MP or not, which is of course shocking.

As for "whataboutery" ? I always find that to be the comeback of the moron, simply because without "whataboutery" we cannot compare or use a like for like standard and as such we require it to ensure consistency and a fair balance.

Why do you fear that ???

[Left Back]

How can an MP being murdered while doing his job generate this amount of shit slinging?