Should Scotland Boycott the World Cup in Qatar?

[Ric]

4 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 I wonder what a similar list for the UK would show?

Go and find the statistics, don't just blithely say, "oooh, I'm sure they are the same as Qatar you know, this is just fearmongering". It may be the way you have written that but it's a really poor response.

 

Anyway, in terms of boycotting, I'd love to see it happen, same as the Olympics in China. Qatar is a fucking religious dictatorship and should not be encouraged to sports-wash its fucking terrible human rights record. The problem is it needs to be a global response and sadly many governments see no issue with what Qatar, and many other Middle Eastern religious dictatorships for that matter, doing what they do so long as (a) they continue to supply oil and (b) continue to buy our weapons.

What benefit Scotland alone boycotting (if we make it) and thanks to the fucking hateful union we have no chance but the compete under the vile Union Jack, so a boycott at the Olympic level would have even less affect. During the Cold War we saw repeated boycotts, it achieved the square root of f**k all, but it was a political statement not trying to pressure countries to change their attitude on human rights (amongst other things).

 

[oneteaminglasgow]

I would support a boycott, but I think the time for it has passed. It should have been done on a confederation wide basis when it was announced that Qatar would be hosting, as that might have made a difference. I don’t think Scotland, in isolation, boycotting will make any real difference.

Elite football is absolutely up to it’s eyes in incredibly dodgy stuff, and it’ll take a lot more than Scotland boycotting a World Cup to change that - not that that means it’s not worthwhile. 

[Skyline Drifter]

21 minutes ago, Ric said:

Go and find the statistics, don't just blithely say, "oooh, I'm sure they are the same as Qatar you know, this is just fearmongering". It may be the way you have written that but it's a really poor response.

 

I never said they'd be the same as Qatar and it's not my job to go find the statistics. I'm not the one quoting them as evidence of some sort of human rights failing. You go find them if it bothers you. I wondered because I suspect that a simple stat on number of foreign nationals from the Asian sub-continent to die in the UK in the last decade would be at least as high. It's meaningless without context though.

[Ric]

3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I never said they'd be the same as Qatar and it's not my job to go find the statistics.

You are the one dismissing it as sensationalist then making the implication that the UK would be the same. So, in that sense the onus is entirely upon you to back that up. What you are saying is you are happy to muddy the waters but are unwilling to provide any supporting evidence of that.

I have no axe to grind with you, but stop being an apologist for a country that has an absolutely dreadful human rights record.

 

[Scary Bear]

 

 

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

There's no might.

In fact, despite the sensationalist headline it's basically a list of foreign nationals to die in Qatar in a decade. That may be excessive, it may not, I wouldn't know. I wonder what a similar list for the UK would show?

In UK Construction industry there are approximately 35 to 40 fatalities a year according to the HSE. The UK has pretty good health & safety on building sites since the introduction of the Construction, Design & Management (CDM) Regs in 1995. If a country is a bit more cavalier about health and safety on construction sites then the number of fatalities will likely be a bit worse than that.

The Guardian article seems to be trying to link the number of fatalities to the start of construction of stadiums. I suppose the number of deaths will depend on the number of other construction projects, the health & safety standards, the climate, treatment of employees, etc. I have heard anecdotal tales of workers on construction sites in Dubai. Due to temperatures there, working conditions sounded pretty awful.

I find that newspaper articles are not usually very scientific. They try and make the figures back up whatever story they are trying to tell, sometimes with little thought as to what the figures actually show.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Scary Bear

[JamesM82]

2 hours ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

I would support a boycott, but I think the time for it has passed. It should have been done on a confederation wide basis when it was announced that Qatar would be hosting, as that might have made a difference. I don’t think Scotland, in isolation, boycotting will make any real difference.

Elite football is absolutely up to it’s eyes in incredibly dodgy stuff, and it’ll take a lot more than Scotland boycotting a World Cup to change that - not that that means it’s not worthwhile. 

The reason the South African boycott worked is because every credible cricket and rugby playing country went along with it, with odd exceptions (rebel tours).

You would need something like most of Europe boycotting a World Cup to destroy its credibility. That's been threatened as a nuclear option to stop FIFA pushing through the idea to hold it every two years.

[Billy Jean King]

You are the one dismissing it as sensationalist then making the implication that the UK would be the same. So, in that sense the onus is entirely upon you to back that up. What you are saying is you are happy to muddy the waters but are unwilling to provide any supporting evidence of that.
I have no axe to grind with you, but stop being an apologist for a country that has an absolutely dreadful human rights record.
 

I made a similar point a few days ago. It's not in any way apologist, it's pointing out the article and headline are misleading. It's as SD was pointing out, the headline figure is the total number of foreign workers to die it Qatar since 2010. It's all cause mortality and not an indication of how many actually died constructing the 10 stadiums (or in any other work related accident). Figures for that seem difficult to come by. Yes their human rights record is appalling yes these migrant workers are paid a pittance and kept in dreadful conditions but the article quoted is wrong plain and simple.

ETA
https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/qatar-world-cup-report-reveals-34-stadium-worker-deaths-in-6-years/

[BFTD]

I'm sure we already had a thread for this. I remember making a hilarious comment about how we'd dingy it by not qualifying, ho ho.

FIFA loves a tournament under a dodgy regime. They're probably hoping the US has slipped into dictatorship by the time the 2026 tournament rolls around. Probably a bit of "we don't look so bad next to these c***s" about it.

[Virtual Insanity]

It doesn't really matter what they died working on does it? These are almost exclusively working age people, the number of whom you would expect to die of natural causes in any given year is presumably tiny.

The headline says 6,750 deaths of migrant workers since Qatar awarded the World Cup, it doesn't make any claims with regard to stadia etc. It's clearly likely to be an underestimate due to the difficulty of documenting such numbers. I don't really know what point people are trying to make here because I would hope there is general agreement that Qatar's record on human rights and exploitation is abhorrent, so we're just arguing the scale?

I would genuinely prefer Scotland to boycott it but I think it's unfair and unreasonable to expect them to do so, especially as a solo gesture.

[Jambomo]

If it were part of a larger, concerted boycott from all associations then I would be happy to support it because there would be an achievable outcome in terms of bringing about attention to the issue and that Quatar would not make income from the tournament itself as it wouldn’t go ahead as planned.

Scotland boycotting on their own, would be pretty much completely ignored and wouldn’t achieve any meaningful outcomes. A small amount of media that goes once the tournament goes ahead, Qatar will still make a shitload of money from the tournament with or without us and it only really punishes our own players and fans, by missing out potentially on the first World Cup we’ve been to for ages.

I am absolutely for action protesting against inequalities and injustices, especially when committed by nation states. That action has to have a point and some achievable goals/aims for it to succeed. 

[101]

The SFA should commission shirts featuring; A A Massive LGBT flag B, The names of the slaves that have died building the stadiums, I can't see a boycott happening but putting the slavery and horrific human rights abuses in the spot light would be an okay second.

[Busta Nut]

I think we should defo wear a big "pride rainbow flag" strip if we get there.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

If the players wanted to boycott it I'd support them.  If the SFA chose to after appointing Malky Mackay I'd still support them.

But the last 2 world cups have been in Russia and Brazil, both countries with appalling human rights records.  The Euros hosted games in Russia, Azerbaijan and Hungary.   I don't think football is growing any conscience if we choose to boycott

[RandomGuy.]

No. The players don't deserve to have a potentially once in a lifetime experience, which they've earned, taken away from them for what would be nothing more than a token gesture which would achieve f**k all.

[Skyline Drifter]

6 hours ago, Virtual Insanity said:

It doesn't really matter what they died working on does it? These are almost exclusively working age people, the number of whom you would expect to die of natural causes in any given year is presumably tiny.

The headline says 6,750 deaths of migrant workers since Qatar awarded the World Cup, it doesn't make any claims with regard to stadia etc. It's clearly likely to be an underestimate due to the difficulty of documenting such numbers. I don't really know what point people are trying to make here because I would hope there is general agreement that Qatar's record on human rights and exploitation is abhorrent, so we're just arguing the scale?

I would genuinely prefer Scotland to boycott it but I think it's unfair and unreasonable to expect them to do so, especially as a solo gesture.

The point is the poster quoting it specifically did so as evidence of a claim that 4,000 people died building stadiums. Which is probably bollocks but even if it isnt its not helped one bit by an article which states 6,500 foreign nationals died of all causes, including old age, in a decade. It also goes on to link the grand total of 37 of them to world cup construction. 

Certain people are so desperate to make their point about Qatar they are missing the entire point. Its not whether the article is right or wrong, misleading or otherwise. Its that it absolutely says something completely different to what the poster quoting it says it does.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Skyline Drifter

[pawpar]

If Scotland qualify we should change back to the pink away strip. Would go down a storm in homophobic Qatar.

 

[Highlandmagar]

If Scotland qualify, then all the players should say that are bisexual and love men equally. Qatar might then refuse to let them in. That would be a good conundrum for FIFA to sort out.

[Ric]

 

8 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Certain people are so desperate to make their point about Qatar they are missing the entire point. Its not whether the article is right or wrong, misleading or otherwise. Its that it absolutely says something completely different to what the poster quoting it says it does.

Wrong. You were the one indulging in whataboutery and fantasy speculation.

It is entirely right I pull you up about it, the fact you double down on it is quite pathetic.

 

 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

5 minutes ago, Ric said:

 

Wrong. You were the one indulging in whataboutery and fantasy speculation.

It is entirely right I pull you up about it, the fact you double down on it is quite pathetic.

You imagined this. There's nobody making more up in this thread than you.

[Bing.McCrosby]

With everything that's going on in Ukraine I think this topic is even more relevant.

Ill support the team (from home) if we make it.

But id be very proud if we pulled out due to the human rights violations being committed. Leading the world in drawing attention to this and hopefully more teams in pulling out would be very admirable. And hopefully help to save peoples lives.